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The more I read the posts from a select few of the posters here, I am of the understanding that they really do hate this country, want the US to vanish, support muslim terrorists and hope that the Jihad is successful. They hide behind a thin veil, pretending to be concerned Americans.
So Hasan just snapped, or went postal. He did not plan his attack for political or ideological reasons, but all 19 hi-jackers did?
That's a lot of hand wringing.
Shouting "Allāhu Akbar" before carrying out a carefully planned attack, to kill US soldiers, who are going off to fight in a war in Afghanistan, when Hasan stated he was against American soldiers killing "believers" was a political act, a religious act and a terrorist act.
Killing 13 people and wounding about 30 others was not a strategic victory in Fort Hood, any more then setting off a car bomb as a US Marine was handing out candy and toys to children was a strategic victory in Iraq.
If a terrorist group's leader sends out the call to all Muslims to do there part to widen the jihad against America, and Hasan hears the call and takes action, its a terrorist act. "Allāhu Akbar!"
That's what I'm saying. Only we don't know if Hasan took action to widen jihad, or if he took action because he's a sick, twisted individual.
I haven't said he's not a terrorist, I've said we don't know that yet. We have plenty of suspicious behavior that supports the theory that he was a terrorist. But no proof.
He's Muslim. So what? Millions of people in this country are Muslim, and are loyal to this country and support it.
He's devoted to his religion and believes in fundamentalist tenets. So what? Millions of Americans are devoted to their religions and are also fundamentalists.
He's criticized the Middle East wars, and in some of his writings has even defended the actions of suicide bombers. So what? It's getting to the point that the majority of Americans are critical of these wars. It's not a terrorist act to try to see things from the viewpoint of the other side. We don't have to ridiculously demonize the people we are at war with. If it's your objective in war to wipe off the face of the world every enemy combatant, then you are an advocate of genocide. That should scare the heck out of you, because no one, ever, should support any variation on this theme.
He was in touch with an imam who is vocal in his hatred of the United States and who preaches that hatred. So what? There were two separate reviews of his communications with this imam, and both reviews considered the communications to not be terrorist-related.
He gave away his belongings. So what? He was planning to open fire on a military base and take lives. He could reasonably expect that he wasn't coming back to his apartment. He could reasonably expect not to survive his actions. He could have been planning to kill himself when he ran low on ammunition. Suicidal people quite often give away their belongings.
He prayed and shouted a praise to his god before opening fire. So what? Do you think Audie Murphy never prayed to god before going into combat? Do you think Sergeant York never prayed before he took aim? Athletic teams often pray before competition, and shout and cheer themselves on to get the adrenaline going.
I'm not saying that none of these things matter. They CAN indicate that Dr Hasan was a terrorist. But they CAN indicate other things as well, as I've shown. It's possible that he was a terrorist, and possible that he was a very angry man who acted on personal motives, not political ones, and so was not a terrorist. Until we know more, we need to acknowledge both possibilities.
And if a lone US soldier, who was a first generation American of German ancestry, would have shouted "Hitler is the greatest" in German, and opened fire on fellow soldiers who were getting ready to board a ship bound for Europe in 1943, do you think these same hand wringers would be as clueless as today? I doubt it, because the political correctness brain washing was not as wide spread back then.
Hitler isn't God.
Allah is God. To billions of people around the world.
Hmmm, if a US chemist, who acted as alarmingly as Hasan, was investigated by intelligence agencies, who reviewed communications between the chemist and people on anarchist or terrorist web sites, to study how they make home made bombs. And then the chemist blows people up with home made bombs, I'd say somebody in the intelligence agency was asleep at the switch.
I can go along with that. Maybe the two separate reviews of Hasan's communications were both conducted by people who were asleep at the wheel. That's possible. And I think it's a good possibility, because it could be that both reviews were cursory in nature, rather than a close scrutiny. It's a good possibility that both reviews were performed by persons who were not Muslim, who might have missed nuances in the communications, who might have overlooked cultural references.
When we know more about the investigations into Hasan prior to his murderous actions at Ft Hood, we'll be better able to determine if we dropped the ball. But right now, we don't know.
That's what I'm saying. Only we don't know if Hasan took action to widen jihad, or if he took action because he's a sick, twisted individual.
...and what terrorist who kills unarmed innocent men women and children is not seen by us as "a sick, twisted individual'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
I haven't said he's not a terrorist, I've said we don't know that yet. We have plenty of suspicious behavior that supports the theory that he was a terrorist. But no proof.
He's Muslim. So what? Millions of people in this country are Muslim, and are loyal to this country and support it.
He's devoted to his religion and believes in fundamentalist tenets. So what? Millions of Americans are devoted to their religions and are also fundamentalists.
He's criticized the Middle East wars, and in some of his writings has even defended the actions of suicide bombers. So what? It's getting to the point that the majority of Americans are critical of these wars. It's not a terrorist act to try to see things from the viewpoint of the other side. We don't have to ridiculously demonize the people we are at war with. If it's your objective in war to wipe off the face of the world every enemy combatant, then you are an advocate of genocide. That should scare the heck out of you, because no one, ever, should support any variation on this theme.
He was in touch with an imam who is vocal in his hatred of the United States and who preaches that hatred. So what? There were two separate reviews of his communications with this imam, and both reviews considered the communications to not be terrorist-related.
He gave away his belongings. So what? He was planning to open fire on a military base and take lives. He could reasonably expect that he wasn't coming back to his apartment. He could reasonably expect not to survive his actions. He could have been planning to kill himself when he ran low on ammunition. Suicidal people quite often give away their belongings.
He prayed and shouted a praise to his god before opening fire. So what? Do you think Audie Murphy never prayed to god before going into combat? Do you think Sergeant York never prayed before he took aim? Athletic teams often pray before competition, and shout and cheer themselves on to get the adrenaline going.
I'm not saying that none of these things matter. They CAN indicate that Dr Hasan was a terrorist. But they CAN indicate other things as well, as I've shown. It's possible that he was a terrorist, and possible that he was a very angry man who acted on personal motives, not political ones, and so was not a terrorist. Until we know more, we need to acknowledge both possibilities.
Congrats, you have just described a Muslim who was motivated to act out his own act of domestic terrorism. Why you cannot see it, i have no clue, unless you are overcome with political correctness.
I seem to remember you not having any problem proclaiming Tiller's murder was an act of domestic terrorism, so why not in this case?
...and what terrorist who kills unarmed innocent men women and children is not seen by us as "a sick, twisted individual'?
Congrats, you have just described a Muslim who was motivated to act out his own act of domestic terrorism. Why you cannot see it, i have no clue, unless you are overcome with political correctness.
I seem to remember you not having any problem proclaiming Tiller's murder was an act of domestic terrorism, so why not in this case?
I don't remember actually calling Tiller's murder terrorism, but I can make the case that it was. Terrorism is an attempt to influence a government or an organization to change its behavior. Terrorism ALWAYS includes a focus on the authorities in a situation, and pressuring them to react in a certain way. That is the coercive element that defines terrorism. Tiller's murder wasn't just about killing a doctor, it was a political statement meant to draw attention to the killer's views on abortion, and to get authorities to restrict and even to prohibit abortions. It is also meant to intimidate other doctors from providing abortions. The killing is justified in the killer's mind because he hopes it will bring about the future he desires.
The problem I have in Dr Hasan's case is that I don't know whether he had a vision of the future he was hoping to help bring to fruition, or whether he killed these people to relieve his personal frustrations, and solely to vent his anger, fear, and frustration. As far as I know, he didn't leave behind a letter or a video, or any other message to tell us what his motives are. And, as if I haven't stated it over and over and over, I'm not ruling out the possibility that he is a terrorist. I think it is possible. I just don't think we can call it a certainty, until we know more. I'd like to know more, to be certain. That's not unreasonable.
So Hasan just snapped, or went postal. He did not plan his attack for political or ideological reasons, but all 19 hi-jackers did?
That's a lot of hand wringing.
Shouting "Allāhu Akbar" before carrying out a carefully planned attack, to kill US soldiers, who are going off to fight in a war in Afghanistan, when Hasan stated he was against American soldiers killing "believers" was a political act, a religious act and a terrorist act.
Killing 13 people and wounding about 30 others was not a strategic victory in Fort Hood, any more then setting off a car bomb as a US Marine was handing out candy and toys to children was a strategic victory in Iraq.
If a terrorist group's leader sends out the call to all Muslims to do there part to widen the jihad against America, and Hasan hears the call and takes action, its a terrorist act. "Allāhu Akbar!"
If the Major had been more respectful of American culture, he would probably have shouted, "GERONIMO", but obviously, he wasn't fully acclimated to American culture. Religion seems to somehow transcend human barbarism.
Sorry, I don't believe you. When were we ever at war with Germany?
Not in my lifetime.
It is highly unlikely that the U.S. would ever go to war with a country that shares the same values Americans hold so dear, such as national pride, sound economy, strong offense, not to mention hierarchical leader worship.
I don't know where you get your "information", but you seem to be some kind of Christian propagandist whacko!
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