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I believe that we are ALL entitled to due process of the law. If you want to change that Constitutional right to due process, then it would probably be best for you and those who agree with you to start working on trying to get the meaning of "due process of the law" changed.
As I have said repeatedly, there is basically no chance of parole for someone who has been sentenced to life without parole (ever). That's the bottom line. Death is Different.
Oh, if only the solution to the problem of crime were as simple as how we discipline our kids! I have investigated the family backgrounds of death row inmates who were SEVERELY PUNISHED/DISCIPLINED when they were children. I know for a FACT that they were seriously disciplined as kids. So, why did they end up on death row if the solution to the problem is as simple as discipline for our kids?
With all due respect, your proposal for punishment for breaking the law in this country sounds much more like the system used in Middle Eastern countries which are governed by religion.
You might also want to consult studies regarding the cost to execute people in this country. If money is your concern, it is far more expensive to execute someone than it is to just take them out of society, lock them away in prison for life without the possibility of parole ever. The Death Penalty Information Center has lots of data about these things. Just google it.
with all due respect for suggestions of how to use google
the fact that criminals were abused (not punished) as children does not prove that punishment is inappropriate in the home.
is a 8 million dollar trial and 1 million a year cost for encarceration fair to the american community? is that justice? what about the 400 police officers and firemen killed in 911-- bin laden is still free the men who did this have not been executed. is that justice?
how long did it take bagdad to execute saddam for his crimes?
we could learn a few things from the people of the mideast about justice or from our own fathers. . as to american constitution-- we were hanging or electrocuting murderers and rapists a few hours after their sentencing until the late 1930's the constitution does not exist to shield rapists and murderers from justice. it exists to protect our citizens from them.
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Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 11-17-2009 at 05:43 PM..
I am a conservative who is against the death penalty for two reasons. I do not believe it is a credible deterent. It is applied too infrequently and takes years to carry out, I don't think any criminal really worries about it as he/she is committing a capital offense. The second reason is because there is too much of a possibility of executing an innocent person. We read frequently of people who have been released from prison after it was determined they were innocent. I can't believe that some innocent people have not been executed. I also happen to think that life in prison is a worse fate than the death penalty.
I am a conservative who is against the death penalty for two reasons. I do not believe it is a credible deterent. It is applied too infrequently and takes years to carry out, I don't think any criminal really worries about it as he/she is committing a capital offense. The second reason is because there is too much of a possibility of executing an innocent person. We read frequently of people who have been released from prison after it was determined they were innocent. I can't believe that some innocent people have not been executed. I also happen to think that life in prison is a worse fate than the death penalty.
I agree it is not a deterent.
It takes many years to have all of the appeal procedures. This can be both good and bad. To have all the years waiting for the execution day is pointless in open and shut cases such as Ted Bundy, Ed Gacy, Ed Gein etc.
I agree that the death sentence must only be given when guilt is 100% proven...not just beyond a reasonable doubt.
Life in prison is a "cake walk" to many of these murderers. Some are even treated like VIP's by other inmates.
There is a real reason for executing certain types of murderers. The mass murderer or the pre meditated or the murder of children, police officers etc. They should be shown no mercy.
I agree it is not a deterent.
It takes many years to have all of the appeal procedures. This can be both good and bad. To have all the years waiting for the execution day is pointless in open and shut cases such as Ted Bundy, Ed Gacy, Ed Gein etc.
I agree that the death sentence must only be given when guilt is 100% proven...not just beyond a reasonable doubt.
Life in prison is a "cake walk" to many of these murderers. Some are even treated like VIP's by other inmates.
There is a real reason for executing certain types of murderers. The mass murderer or the pre meditated or the murder of children, police officers etc. They should be shown no mercy.
I am not sure how you can prove someone is 100% guilty. There are very few people, such as you named who I am close to 100% confident are guilty.
Prison wasn't such a cake walk for Dahmer. I think it is a pretty awful place.
with all due respect for suggestions of how to use google
the fact that criminals were abused (not punished) as children does not prove that punishment is inappropriate in the home.
is a 8 million dollar trial and 1 million a year cost for encarceration fair to the american community? is that justice? what about the 400 police officers and firemen killed in 911-- bin laden is still free the men who did this have not been executed. is that justice?
how long did it take bagdad to execute saddam for his crimes?
we could learn a few things from the people of the mideast about justice or from our own fathers. . as to american constitution-- we were hanging or electrocuting murderers and rapists a few hours after their sentencing until the late 1930's the constitution does not exist to shield rapists and murderers from justice. it exists to protect our citizens from them.
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Where did you get your numbers of $8 million for a murder trial, and $1 million per year to incarcerate an inmate each year?
I never said punishment for children was inappropriate. Where did you get that idea? Yes, many death row inmates were, in fact, seriously physically abused by their parents, and many were seriously "disciplined."
And, yes, even though there are huge problems in re Bin Laden, etc., WE STILL HAVE TO LIVE OUR LIVES, and living our lives as a nation of laws, we must continue to deal with our domestice problems as well. Would you suggest we suspend our system of due process now and just punish people because they were arrested? Have you forgotten about the presumption of innocence?
We were also much less civilized at one time in this country, in fact, we owned human beings as slaves and that was a basically protected institution for a long time. So, would you suggest that that past was a better way?
The Constitution is there to protect EVERYONE, including those wrongly convicted in our system. You manage to completely ignore that little detail. What should we do to PREVENT wrongful convictions in death penalty cases? Got any ideas? Or are you one of the many who would prefer to continue to have a flawed system which provides a death penalty so that you can feel "better" when someone is executed, so you can feel self-righteously outraged by the crime and and feel much better when someone has been executed by the state for that crime, regardless of whether or not it was a possible wrongful conviction?
IMO, your "solutions" which you suggest are enormously Draconian and simplistic, to say the least. Perhaps we should have the Taliban in charge of our criminal court system......maybe they could provide the type of justice which so many of our citizens THOUGHTLESSLY advocate these days.
I agree with you that if there is even the slightest doubt then no death penalty. The ones where there is absolutely NO doubt should be executed.
No matter how much you "WANT" the system to work the way you suggest, it's not possible. Simply not possible. Therefore, to achieve what you want in terms of the death penalty, which seems to be a verdict of guilty beyond all doubt, you're just plain out of luck.
There is one way in which juries in this country determine guilt/innocence in a criminal case. ONE WAY. ONLY ONE WAY. The jury makes a decision that they think the person committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. The jury is not required to find a person guilty of murder beyond all doubt; therefore, when a guilty verdict is returned, there could still be some doubt by some of the jurors.
Death penalty law and procedure is very complicated.
I agree it is not a deterent.
It takes many years to have all of the appeal procedures. This can be both good and bad. To have all the years waiting for the execution day is pointless in open and shut cases such as Ted Bundy, Ed Gacy, Ed Gein etc.
I agree that the death sentence must only be given when guilt is 100% proven...not just beyond a reasonable doubt.
Life in prison is a "cake walk" to many of these murderers. Some are even treated like VIP's by other inmates.
There is a real reason for executing certain types of murderers. The mass murderer or the pre meditated or the murder of children, police officers etc. They should be shown no mercy.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you think the death sentence must be given only when guilt is 100% proven....yet clearly you know that 100% positive a person committed a murder is NOT POSSIBLE, given the LAW. The LAW requires that a person be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. After a person is arrested and charged in a death penalty case, HOW does the State go about proving that the person is 100% guilty so that only those people get the death sentence?
Citizens in this country have a right to a trial by jury, and that MEANS EVERYONE, even the Ted Bundys, Ed Gacys, etc. So what you want to happen in terms of the death penalty is NOT POSSIBLE under our current system of justice and laws.
What makes you think that a jury or a judge would show any murderer "mercy"?
You said that life is a cake walk for many murderers sentenced to life in prison.......and EXACTLY where did you get that idea? Maybe you and I have very different ideas as to what would be a cake walk! You also say that some of them are treated like VIPs by other inmates........get real.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you think the death sentence must be given only when guilt is 100% proven....yet clearly you know that 100% positive a person committed a murder is NOT POSSIBLE, given the LAW. The LAW requires that a person be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. After a person is arrested and charged in a death penalty case, HOW does the State go about proving that the person is 100% guilty so that only those people get the death sentence?
Citizens in this country have a right to a trial by jury, and that MEANS EVERYONE, even the Ted Bundys, Ed Gacys, etc. So what you want to happen in terms of the death penalty is NOT POSSIBLE under our current system of justice and laws.
What makes you think that a jury or a judge would show any murderer "mercy"?
You said that life is a cake walk for many murderers sentenced to life in prison.......and EXACTLY where did you get that idea? Maybe you and I have very different ideas as to what would be a cake walk! You also say that some of them are treated like VIPs by other inmates........get real.
Well suppose you could say someone was 100% guilty using video. Suppose Hinkley had killed Reagan? There was no doubt he had the gun and fired at Reagan that day. There would have been no doubt he was guilty.
I disagree. I think that the means of execution should be as horrible as possible. Keep in mind the horror that they induced in a victim; those same feelings should be replicated as closely as possible in the criminal. If it need to be "death by pliers", so be it.
So you're not one of those people who sing the praises of the U.S. Constitution then?
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