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Old 11-23-2009, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,199,939 times
Reputation: 569

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colddiamond102 View Post
Jackarses are everywhere, no matter the region you're in.
How many times are you going to say this? I've said a million and 1 times that I agree. I even listed incidents that happen in the NE.

Quote:
We just happen to have said jackarses that are "better" about making the news. Jena 6..KKK...if you think the majority of people here support that kind of garbage, you're dead wrong.
I only brought up the news stories because you brought it up first with the pool incident in Philly. I know that only a very tiny minority are racist and what not. I have an Aunt and Uncle who live about 30 miles outside Winston-Salem and neither they nor their neighbors or friends are racist afaik. My point is that blatant racism is more prevalent (even if by a small degree) in the South than it is in the North. Just look at the map I posted above.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:25 AM
 
39,130 posts, read 23,314,344 times
Reputation: 12170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Thanks for your story. Minneaopolis is not a place that someone thinks of when you hear "racism".

The South has that reputation, has the stereotype, unlike Minnesota. So when you hear something that sounds like it happened fifty years ago, it enforces the stereotype, especially if like me you haven't spent much time in the south.

Here's another example. Ever see a black guy driving Lexus out of the rundown ghetto neighborhood where he lives? That's a stereotype. It's not true of all black people, but when you see it, it reinforces the stereotype because there's just enough of an element of truth in it.

Take it further and look at the stereotypes of northerners the southerners are throwing around on this thread. Everyone is "a liberal", even though they have no clue about who were are as individuals and what we believe or don't believe. I'm sure they've met people who reinforced their stereotype as well and believe themselves to be making an accurate judgement.
We don't have run-down ghetto neighborhoods where I live. And I'm not sure what the stereotype of a black guy driving a Lexus is supposed to tell me. That he's successful? That he prefers Lexus to BMW? That he's into cars?

I haven't stereotyped northerners, that I'm aware of. I know some Northerners that are far, far, far to the right of myself and most of the people I know.

What I do know is that having lived in the South and the North, that people are mostly the same. People who are taught to be prejudiced will most likely believe that there is a foundation for those prejudices. People will vote for the candidates they are the most familiar with, even when that candidate doesn't really match up with their best interests. Because they prefer to go with the known quantity, not the unknown quantity. People will take their experiences, and the experiences of the people around them, as reinforcement of their beliefs.

My belief is that we live in a world where our appearance matters. And beautiful people are at an advantage. Sometimes, perhaps even often, white people are at an advantage. But being beautiful, or possessing any other appearance-related advantage, can work against you, as people sometimes think you are less deserving, or less intelligent, or less resourceful. Any time we make presumptions about people based solely on their appearance, we are being prejudiced. Being prejudiced just might be part of being human, and even other animals have been shown in science experiments to make judgments and decisions based on appearance.

I think though, that at least when it comes to beauty, it's not all objective. Each of us finds beauty in a unique way, each of us sees beauty individually, it's subjective. The color of a person's skin is less subjective. And the color of a person's skin does tell me something about that person. It tells me that in the parts of the world I'm most familiar with, countries dominated by a European heritage, that a person with darker pigmentation is more likely to have negative experiences at the hands of lighter pigmented persons. That means they will see the world differently than I do, which everyone sees the world through their own perspectives and experiences. But it's the consistency of experiences that forms up our expectations. And we then like the world to live up or to live down to those expectations, and that, to me, is the rub. I wish we lived in a world where our best expectations were always met, and our least expectations were not. But that's not reality. There will always be disappointments, there will always be frustrations. And some of that will be the result of prejudice.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Camberville
11,423 posts, read 16,090,000 times
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I moved to the South when I was 2 and got out as fast as possible when I was 18. While the stereotypes are not universally true, when you grow up in the 1990s having crosses burned on your lawn, bricks thrown through your windows, and being harassed in school without any intervention from your teachers because your family *dared* dirty their community with your Jewishness, there's a problem.

I now live in Massachusetts and really appreciate the fact that I was able to live in a hell hole- it makes me appreciate this state and these people all the more.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,772 posts, read 50,991,470 times
Reputation: 60800
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
We don't have run-down ghetto neighborhoods where I live. And I'm not sure what the stereotype of a black guy driving a Lexus is supposed to tell me. That he's successful? That he prefers Lexus to BMW? That he's into cars?

I haven't stereotyped northerners, that I'm aware of. I know some Northerners that are far, far, far to the right of myself and most of the people I know.

What I do know is that having lived in the South and the North, that people are mostly the same. People who are taught to be prejudiced will most likely believe that there is a foundation for those prejudices. People will vote for the candidates they are the most familiar with, even when that candidate doesn't really match up with their best interests. Because they prefer to go with the known quantity, not the unknown quantity. People will take their experiences, and the experiences of the people around them, as reinforcement of their beliefs.

My belief is that we live in a world where our appearance matters. And beautiful people are at an advantage. Sometimes, perhaps even often, white people are at an advantage. But being beautiful, or possessing any other appearance-related advantage, can work against you, as people sometimes think you are less deserving, or less intelligent, or less resourceful. Any time we make presumptions about people based solely on their appearance, we are being prejudiced. Being prejudiced just might be part of being human, and even other animals have been shown in science experiments to make judgments and decisions based on appearance.

I think though, that at least when it comes to beauty, it's not all objective. Each of us finds beauty in a unique way, each of us sees beauty individually, it's subjective. The color of a person's skin is less subjective. And the color of a person's skin does tell me something about that person. It tells me that in the parts of the world I'm most familiar with, countries dominated by a European heritage, that a person with darker pigmentation is more likely to have negative experiences at the hands of lighter pigmented persons. That means they will see the world differently than I do, which everyone sees the world through their own perspectives and experiences. But it's the consistency of experiences that forms up our expectations. And we then like the world to live up or to live down to those expectations, and that, to me, is the rub. I wish we lived in a world where our best expectations were always met, and our least expectations were not. But that's not reality. There will always be disappointments, there will always be frustrations. And some of that will be the result of prejudice.
The stereotype is of black people living in the ghetto--in other words, spending next to nothing on housing and getting what they paid for--yet driving an expensive automobile. General wisdom is that the goal is to live in a better place and so hopefully save to own some real property someday. Buying an expensive car that depreciates the minute you drive it off the lot is counterintuitive to that goal.

The response, by the way, is that often to a black person in the ghetto, the fancy car is seen as attainable, while the house with the picket fence in a nice neighborhood is not.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:07 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,916,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
I agree the South is misunderstood. But those of us who are aware of its Civil Rights legacy find ot hard to set that aside when we think about the South, despite the great strides the region has mage in the past few decades. Images of the Governor of Mississippi standing in the doorway of Ole Miss with legally armed thugs trying to block the admission of the first "Negro" student... the Governor of Geogia handing out pick ax handles from his Atlanta restaurant to whites who'd help fight integration... the bodies of the white and black college student civil rights workers murdered by locals, pulled out of a Mississippi forest... the innocent faces of the little black girls killed by a bomb in a Birmingham church...the flaming bus in Alabama, torched by racists to intimidate the civil rights riders... the picture of the black Chicago boy who was tortured and thrown in a river with weights by Mississippi segregationists, the police chief of Birmingham ordering civil rights marchers to be attacked by dogs and fire hoses...the black girl being taunted and insulted by the rabid mob outside Central High in Little Rock.

These things stay with many of us even though those days and the perpetrators are long gone (thank God). Yes, the South is much different today, but to those of us who know these imiages and that history, it's hard not to think about it.
This is a great response. I think these events cannot be easily removed from our minds. These are very powerful images. As you mentioned, I wonder how many Southern residents are even aware of these events?
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:13 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,916,874 times
Reputation: 9879
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
^Another outstanding post, TexasReb!

I would like to add that the ONLY white politician that spoke before Congress in favor of the Civil Rights Act was the Mayor of Atlanta.
You should also add that one of the people who spoke out against the Civil Rights act that day was Robert Byrd. You should also add that Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms were U.S. Senators from South Carolina and North Carolina who led the the movement against Civil Rights and were re-elected well into the 2000's. Again, how many Northern states kept re-electing racist politicians well into the modern era? Remember, these are the most important political posts in these states and the people of those states have to vote them into office. These people wouldn't have won if the majority of the residents in those states didn't elect them to office.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:26 PM
 
820 posts, read 731,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
You should also add that one of the people who spoke out against the Civil Rights act that day was Robert Byrd. You should also add that Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms were U.S. Senators from South Carolina and North Carolina who led the the movement against Civil Rights and were re-elected well into the 2000's. Again, how many Northern states kept re-electing racist politicians well into the modern era? Remember, these are the most important political posts in these states and the people of those states have to vote them into office. These people wouldn't have won if the majority of the residents in those states didn't elect them to office.
50% of the people in this country don't even know who there senators are. That's the real issue.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:24 PM
 
39,130 posts, read 23,314,344 times
Reputation: 12170
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
This is a great response. I think these events cannot be easily removed from our minds. These are very powerful images. As you mentioned, I wonder how many Southern residents are even aware of these events?
Of course Southerners are aware of those events. They only happened fifty years ago.

You know, when the North began to outlaw slavery (at least in name, since NJ still had slaves after the Civil War), how long did they take to forget their history? They free their slaves and just fifty years later are declaring moral superiority to the South.

But fifty years after desegregation and the civil rights struggle, you think it's just that you should "remind" the South of these events. If the North could forgive and forget its role in slavery in ante-bellum America in less than 50 years, how long should the South have to answer for its actions? As long as the rest of the country wants a whipping boy and place to point fingers?
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:47 PM
 
39,130 posts, read 23,314,344 times
Reputation: 12170
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
You should also add that one of the people who spoke out against the Civil Rights act that day was Robert Byrd. You should also add that Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms were U.S. Senators from South Carolina and North Carolina who led the the movement against Civil Rights and were re-elected well into the 2000's. Again, how many Northern states kept re-electing racist politicians well into the modern era? Remember, these are the most important political posts in these states and the people of those states have to vote them into office. These people wouldn't have won if the majority of the residents in those states didn't elect them to office.
Ooh, let's talk about that. Just how familiar are you with the opinions of various elected leaders? Did you know that Teddy Roosevelt considered the Irish to be an inferior race? At the beginning of the 20th century, were you aware that Poles weren't considered to be white, but of a separate race? Do you like to forget about the anti-Semitic laws? The miscegenation laws in the West that prohibited whites from marrying Asians, Native Americans and Filipinos? After all, that was an expansion of miscegenation laws, and many of those states didn't repeal those laws until the 1950's.

The civil rights struggle was especially hard-fought in the South. But it was a national struggle. It was not a case of the rest of the country being a haven for the ideals of justice and equality. In 1950 98% of Americans thought that interracial marriage was wrong. Not 98% of Southern Americans. 98% of ALL Americans. Schools across the country had to adopt busing and redistricting in an effort to segregate their school systems. Not just schools in the South. But schools in New York, and schools in Massachusetts and schools in Illinois. Where was the strongest resistance to busing to enforce desegregation? Not in Little Rock, Arkansas, but in Boston, Massachusetts.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,772 posts, read 50,991,470 times
Reputation: 60800
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Of course Southerners are aware of those events. They only happened fifty years ago.

You know, when the North began to outlaw slavery (at least in name, since NJ still had slaves after the Civil War), how long did they take to forget their history? They free their slaves and just fifty years later are declaring moral superiority to the South.

But fifty years after desegregation and the civil rights struggle, you think it's just that you should "remind" the South of these events. If the North could forgive and forget its role in slavery in ante-bellum America in less than 50 years, how long should the South have to answer for its actions? As long as the rest of the country wants a whipping boy and place to point fingers?
The numbers were smaller, though. The north didn't have the big plantation system and therefore wasn't left with four million newly-freed people that no one had planned what to do with.

Slavery in NJ ended with its ratification of the 13th Amendment. It had technically ended earlier, but those unlucky enough to be born before the gradual emancipation laws of 1804 were kept on and called "apprentices".

And before the war, Jersey was fighting internally over the slavery issue. There is a historic church in Paramus, NJ, known as Old Paramus Reformed Church. In the 1850's, the pastor of the church quit because of the viciousness of the fighting amongst the church members over the question of slavery.

And in New York City in 1863 during the draft riots, protestors lynched a man on Clark Street and set him on fire, and burned down the Colored Orphans Asylum (the children survived and the Hebrew Orphanage took them in.)

Just tossing in some history here.
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