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Old 11-19-2009, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,130,959 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
This a very touchy subject but I live in Minneapolis and probably more than 50% of all murders here are black on black. We can spend hours trying to justify why and the reasons BUT:.
I used to live in Minneapolis, and that statement is not only false but to try and compare african americans in high population large urban areas to native americans in small towns/reservations in a rural state is not only an unfair comparison, it also does not reflect whats behind the murder rate.

To simply say 'its poverty' is just as silly as saying 'its guns'. Native poverty in SD stems from lack of jobs, but is not based in competition for resources. Black (and brown) poverty in north MPLS and central St Paul is based on lack of jobs and competition for resources.

To say 'black culture is the problem' is silly, you may as well say 'spousal abuse or serial killings is due to white culture'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny days
Not in my county, I see blacks getting less time for the same crimes as whites.
LOL,

1. Proof please?

2. So you are going to build your GENERAL STATEMENT ON 40 MILLION PEOPLE IN 50 STATES just off statistics you heard second hand in your single county? Your one city is reflectory for the rest of the nation? Regardless if all national statistics say the opposite of what you claim?

Think about how foolish and inaccurate that is.

Last edited by tindo80; 11-19-2009 at 05:59 PM..

 
Old 11-19-2009, 05:53 PM
 
6,899 posts, read 6,563,864 times
Reputation: 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Also, I was in Iowa last year and they were talking about the disproportionate amount of African Americans being incarcerated in the state of Iowa, basically out of the inmate population, 3300 were Black, 800 were Latino and 284 were White. I am sorry but there is a very little crime in Iowa outside of the larger cities like Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Davenport and Sioux City. RACISM? I find it hard to believe!

the bottom line is, these folks a responsible for their own actions. Using the excuse of Poverty, profiling blah blah blah is just that excuse. I get so tired of seeing and hearing these so called pundits, organizers and others capitalizing on these excuses. They need to stop. There are many in the poor black community that do not bow down to crime.
 
Old 11-19-2009, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,130,959 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud View Post
the bottom line is, these folks a responsible for their own actions. Using the excuse of Poverty, profiling blah blah blah is just that excuse. I get so tired of seeing and hearing these so called pundits, organizers and others capitalizing on these excuses. They need to stop. There are many in the poor black community that do not bow down to crime.
Buddy, poverty and crime HISTORICALLY go together. With ALL races. Whether its Irish in 1800's UK, Italians in 1900s NY, or blacks in the US since slavery ended.

Claiming poverty has no connection is like saying drinking has nothing to do with Drunk Driver Homicides.
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:07 PM
 
6,899 posts, read 6,563,864 times
Reputation: 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
Buddy, poverty and crime HISTORICALLY go together. With ALL races. Whether its Irish in 1800's UK, Italians in 1900s NY, or blacks in the US since slavery ended.

Claiming poverty has no connection is like saying drinking has nothing to do with Drunk Driver Homicides.

Not a buddy.....Saying poverty is the dominant reason why we have so many blacks in prison or why so many blacks turns to crime is an excuse...this is the "easy way out". That mentality needs to stop. There are so many growing up in those same area's that do not resort to crime. We have parents in the black community claiming the kids hang out on the corner or resort to crime because theres nothing to do...I grew up the most urban part of NJ there are things to do, parents just need to encourage their children and adults need to be more creative not criminal.
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Iowa, Heartland of Murica
3,437 posts, read 5,495,191 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
To simply say 'its poverty' is just as silly as saying 'its guns'. Native poverty in SD stems from lack of jobs, but is not based in competition for resources. Black (and brown) poverty in north MPLS and central St Paul is based on lack of jobs and competition for resources.

To say 'black culture is the problem' is silly, you may as well say 'spousal abuse or serial killings is due to white culture'.
Lack of jobs? My parents immigrated to this country without speaking a freaking word of English and I don't remember them EVER being unemployed after having lived here for almost 25 years. You can find all types of excuses but this one I am not buying. You know why? Because even illegal Mexicans find jobs here in Minnesota and I have never seen a Mexican person downtown Minneapolis going like "Hey man, can you spare some change?"

Cut the CRAP please!
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,130,959 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud View Post
Not a buddy.....Saying poverty is the dominant reason why we have so many blacks in prison or why so many blacks turns to crime is an excuse...this is the "easy way out".
Fair enough 'guy'. No one is saying poverty is the excuse. Its the facilitator.

As stated, high crime is attributed with impoverished groups in EVERY western nation throughout history, not just blacks. Irish, Italians, Natives, Gypsies, Proestants in catholic nations, Catholics in Protestant nations etc

When Poverty shrinks, crime shrinks across the races. PERIOD. (http://capaassociation.org/newsletter_N009/Articles/PovertyCrime.htm - broken link)

On prisons, look at the link given to Sunny Days in the last page. That is the primary reason behind the prison disparities .

Quote:
Originally Posted by republocrat
Lack of jobs? My parents immigrated to this country without speaking a freaking word of English and I don't remember them EVER being unemployed after having lived here for almost 25 years. You can find all types of excuses but this one I am not buying. You know why? Because even illegal Mexicans find jobs here in Minnesota and I have never seen a Mexican person downtown Minneapolis going like "Hey man, can you spare some change?"

Cut the CRAP please!
You cant argue facts. Crime and Poverty are closer related than Race and Poverty. Its a fact. An old one at that.

About illegal mexicans

1. The jobs they get keep them in poverty.
2. They are migratory, not stationary. Migratory poverty is 100% different than stationary.
3. MPLS has almost NO illegal immigrant population compared to almost every other big city. Not really a comparison.

Quote:
Sociologist and criminal justice scholars have found a direct correlation between poverty and crime. One economic theory of crime assumes that people weigh the consequences of committing crime. They resort to crime only if the cost or consequences are outweighed by the potential benefits to be gained. The logical conclusion to this theory is that people living in poverty are far more likely to commit property crimes such as burglary, larceny, or theft.
So, as I told Sunny, Just because in YOUR personal experience you never saw someone from a different group that YOU deem on equal poverty footing as blacks, you apply your own standard to 40 million others?? Really?

You compare blacks in Minneapolis to blacks everywhere else? Gee, that makes lots of sense! LOL.

Gimme a break. First you make some stereotypical hockey claim about black crime in Minneapolis (which is easily shot down), now you are here claiming you can compare your personal interactions in a city/state with fewer african americans than some neighborhoods/counties in NY, CA, IL, and the south, where 85% of african americans live, your claim of 'black culture inferiority/inherent criminality' (synonymous with racialist claims that blacks are inherently subhuman criminals) holds water?

Did you graduate high school?
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,608 posts, read 9,807,341 times
Reputation: 9236
This thread needs to be killed. I don't believe an o.p. that was actually black would be so disingenuous as to bait readers with such a one sided presentation of the issue. There hasn't really been a huge increase in black unemployment since the meltdown since so few blacks per capita had any meaningful employment statistics worth boasting about before the meltdown. That is not for lack of trying. There is real and systematic racism keeping black people away from gainful employment.

Some turn inward and go quietly off into that good night. Some don't. Lets see how long crime levels remain low in white (80%) areas if unemployment levels ever reach the 50% levels that they are in areas where the black population is 100% of residents. Also now that unemployment is rising even among your model citizen illegal immigrants lets see how long crime rates continue to remain low in areas where the immigrants have been enjoying the good life, driving full size pickups and throwing lavish parties every weekend and driving the consumer indexes of targeted cities off the meter. I'm waiting.

H
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:33 PM
 
51,651 posts, read 41,606,703 times
Reputation: 32266
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGX159 View Post
I'm not being racist when I say this(can't I'm black too) that if the black population is above 30% the crime rate is higher, if the black population is higher than other races and make up a majority, the crime rate skyrockets. And if it's equal to any other race, it skyrockets as well.

Then when I find places where the white population is about 80-90 %, there's hardly any crime at all.

Is a higher population in Blacks in towns and cities forcing people to move???
You are confusing causation with correlation. Low Income relates to crime and more blacks are low-income. It has nothing to do with skin color.
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:38 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,410,110 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
I think you missed the point of the article. The point is that blacks are actually under represented in stops as compared to the rate at which they commit crimes. If police stopped whites and blacks the same as they are represented in society, they would be ignoring where the crime is actually being committed. You seem to think that if blacks are only 24% of the city they should only be 24% of the stops despite the fact that they commit 80% of the violent crime. I don't think stopping blacks in proportion to the crimes they commit is profiling.

- Reel

well that is just completely ridiculous. Your statement in it self is profiling. You are claiming that because someone is black you should be more suspicious that they are a criminal. You dont see this as a violation of peoples rights? Profiling is defined as:

Racial Profiling: Definition "Racial Profiling" refers to the discriminatory practice by law enforcement officials of targeting individuals for suspicion of crime based on the individual's race, ethnicity, religion or national origin. Criminal profiling, generally, as practiced by police, is the reliance on a group of characteristics they believe to be associated with crime. Examples of racial profiling are the use of race to determine which drivers to stop for minor traffic violations (commonly referred to as "driving while black or brown"), or the use of race to determine which pedestrians to search for illegal contraband.



Don't you see the point. Crimes are crimes and people are people. Just like the FBI cant interogate every muslim the police have no right to stop people just because they are black.
 
Old 11-19-2009, 06:53 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,410,110 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
That's whats dishonest about your position. You want me to go look up the research so I can post it here while you then source attack it or discredit it claiming that isn't the research you were talking about or that there is more that proves your point. I then repeat this over and over while you shoot each one down without dealing with anything posted and sit comfortably in a position of never having to answer to your claims?

Since you do not seem accustomed to proper reference and mention of citation, let me inform you.

You can refer to a study by name if that study is common knowledge without citation. You can do this for many common knowledge facts IF you refer to them in a manner to which your position can be validated and that support as I said IS common knowledge.

You have referred to no such study, simply a study topic. So I have no idea to which study you are referring to and to which support you lay hold.

Your unwillingness to provide even a name of reference is a fallacy in that you refer to a support of fact by generality, and proclaim yourself validated. You are not.

Please provide me with anything of a reference, it can be a name of the study and administration, it can be by an author's name or like reference. This would give me a starting point to actually verify your claim. Otherwise you are simply giving directions to a residence by claiming its address is planet earth.

First off do not speak to me as if I don't know about research. I am highly educated. Secondly me providing info after I have asked several others to do so with no real response seems like an easy way for you to do exactly what you claim I will do. Either way though here is a simple link to start with. As I have stated though you can easily find the info. Especially since you are so familiar with proper research methods. Search peer reviewed journals etc. This is all I will provide until someone provides other info to contradict it.

Article: Poverty, not race, tied to high crime in urban communities - New York Amsterdam News | HighBeam Research - FREE trial
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