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Old 11-21-2009, 11:40 AM
 
44,577 posts, read 43,103,689 times
Reputation: 14376

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
No I don't advocate random stops. I don't believe stops are random. Stops are made for a reason. If a cop is out there making truly random stops he will be found out and dealt with.

I think you miss the point of my posts. What I am saying is that if blacks are stopped in greater numbers than their percentage in the population it is not necessarily racial profiling as long as they are not stopped in greater numbers than the rate at which they perpetrate crimes.

For example, if blacks are 24% of the population but perpetrate 80% of the crime, stopping blacks 80% of the time would not be racial profiling. If the police are getting reports of young black males perpetrating crime and they are not getting reports of young white males perpetrating crime then young black males are going to get stopped more.

It's too simplistic to suggest that because blacks only make up 24% of the population they should not be stopped more than 24% of the time.

- Reel
Maybe I didn't make it clear, it isn't fair to me if I am the one being pulled over, knowing I didn't do anything.

 
Old 11-21-2009, 12:00 PM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,990,455 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Maybe I didn't make it clear, it isn't fair to me if I am the one being pulled over, knowing I didn't do anything.
No, of course not. Life's not fair or haven't you been told. It's not fair that you have to go through security at the airport either. You're not going to hijack an airplane. I've been stopped and questioned on more than one occassion. I was not quilty. C'est la vie.

- Reel
 
Old 11-21-2009, 12:29 PM
 
44,577 posts, read 43,103,689 times
Reputation: 14376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
No, of course not. Life's not fair or haven't you been told. It's not fair that you have to go through security at the airport either. You're not going to hijack an airplane. I've been stopped and questioned on more than one occassion. I was not quilty. C'est la vie.

- Reel
I don't go for that "c'est la vie" stuff. Stuff gets done, by people to people. I think the airport security stuff isn't helpful to me either. I know I am not going to hijiack a plane, and I know Muslims who have been on planes who will not hijack planes. That is my point. I am not the one committing the crime. Why should I get the random police stop? If it happened to you, it shouldn't happen. I am quite aware that life isn't fair. That is why I think someone should do something about it. Another thing I wanted to get out is if I am not going to committ a crime, why to people want to use my race as a reason to determine if I am going to be a criminal? You tell me how that would help ME live a better life.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 03:18 PM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,990,455 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I don't go for that "c'est la vie" stuff. Stuff gets done, by people to people. I think the airport security stuff isn't helpful to me either. I know I am not going to hijiack a plane, and I know Muslims who have been on planes who will not hijack planes. That is my point. I am not the one committing the crime. Why should I get the random police stop? If it happened to you, it shouldn't happen. I am quite aware that life isn't fair. That is why I think someone should do something about it. Another thing I wanted to get out is if I am not going to committ a crime, why to people want to use my race as a reason to determine if I am going to be a criminal? You tell me how that would help ME live a better life.
You are young and very idealistic as was I when I was young. You will become much less so as you grow older. I don't mean to sound cynical. You should try to right the wrongs when you find them. But it's not necessarily wrong to screen everyone entering an airport or building. It's not necessarily wrong to stop someone for questioning even if you are not sure they are guilty. It would be a perfect world if we knew who was and who was not the criminals but we do not. Go ahead and shoot for perfection but you won't get there. Life is full of compromise and nothing is perfect.

- Reel
 
Old 11-21-2009, 03:48 PM
 
11 posts, read 12,966 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Maybe I didn't make it clear, it isn't fair to me if I am the one being pulled over, knowing I didn't do anything.
Why don't you blame the disproportional amount of Blacks committing a disproportional amount of crime?
 
Old 11-21-2009, 08:00 PM
 
44,577 posts, read 43,103,689 times
Reputation: 14376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasNJ12 View Post
Why don't you blame the disproportional amount of Blacks committing a disproportional amount of crime?
Because there are many other ethnic groups who committ crimes too. Should I jugde an entire ethnic group(or anyone of any ethnic group) on the actions of a few? I am not the one committing crimes. Those persons are. Why should I be judged for what others do? I don't blame it on them because a person ought to know better.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 10:01 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,346,150 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
I was well within bounds to ask for a source of more than "search the internet", especially when your claims were made as a matter of fact. It is also a proper courtesy in a discussion to provide such when making a definitive claim based on such evidence. I may or may not have an issue with the research, but if I do I will properly explain my reasoning.

Also, if you note, I never took a position of "fact" as you did, merely made a speculation that sub-culture can play a part to which you corrected me that this was not so stating a fact to your claim.

Try not to assume that I will act like some others on these boards who are entirely political and support their positions through fallacious claims.


Edit:
Never mind, not even bothering with that source as they want CC info for the free trial. The topic is not that interesting to go through that trouble. So if it is a fact of not or cleverly applied statistical methodology, I really don't care at this point.
Typical. I give info you stop talking.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,104,852 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
Typical. I give info you stop talking.
HE seems like another extremist Troll. They all tend to do that once their lies are pointed out or their points shot down.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 10:05 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,346,150 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtsBees View Post
You're right, I don't like black neighborhoods. Why? I value my life. And to say cops profile black neighborhoods is just silly. So when the gunshots ring out and people call them, and the perpetrators are black, is it the cops fault? Must be. Blame everyone else but the person responsible, seems to be how America works today.


First...at least you admit it.

Second, read the already provided statistics white on black crime is higher than black on white crime.

Third when perpetrators are known vs profiling is quite different. However still has little to do with their race.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 10:09 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,346,150 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
I'm sorry. I guess this point was a little deep for some people. Let me use a simple example.

With a single crime, if the victim and witnesses say it was a black man who perpetrated the crime then 100% of the stops should be black. If any non-blacks are stopped it represents a waste of time. This would be the case even if blacks were only 10% of the population. This would not be racial profiling. Do you understand now?

So with city wide crime, if victims and witnesses say 80% of the crime is perpetrated by blacks then blacks should be 80% of the stops despite their being 24% of the population. That's not racial profiling.

It seems pretty simple to me.

- Reel

of course its simple to you. However you are incorrect. Thats not how it works. Please re-read the definition. You are speaking of people being stopped and questioned. If anyone is stopped simply on the basis of skin, religion, sex etc etc without any other aspects of criminal activity then they are being profiled. Period That is very simple.
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