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Old 11-22-2009, 08:34 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,992,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
you said

" It's not necessarily wrong to stop someone for questioning even if you are not sure they are guilty"



Yes it is. That is a direct violation of a persons rights. That is my point. You feel a black person can be stopped simply on the basis of skin color and that is a violation of their rights. Quite simple.
You are incorrect. While crimes are being investigated the police will question many people. The police understand that many of the people they question are not guilty. No I did not say that black people could be stopped only because of their skin color. What I did say was that stopping blacks at the same rate that they perpetrate crimes is not racial profiling even if the rate exceeds their numbers in the population.

 
Old 11-22-2009, 09:23 AM
 
11 posts, read 12,981 times
Reputation: 14
everywhere there is a large number of blacks, there is a large crime rate. whether it be in the U.S, France, the U.K, or majority Black countries such as South Africa.

I, personally, think they are more genetically prone to violent behavior. Or, at least, it seems that way. In my city, Blacks are 20% of the population but every single newsreport is some Black committing some ridiculous, senseless, violent act. It gets to the point where you need to ask, "are we really all the same?" It's built on a myth.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Georgia
155 posts, read 238,409 times
Reputation: 168
crime will always be a problem in america because people live here!!! It doesn't matter what race,etc you are
 
Old 11-22-2009, 10:39 AM
 
44,678 posts, read 43,215,754 times
Reputation: 14427
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasNJ12 View Post
everywhere there is a large number of blacks, there is a large crime rate. whether it be in the U.S, France, the U.K, or majority Black countries such as South Africa.

I, personally, think they are more genetically prone to violent behavior. Or, at least, it seems that way. In my city, Blacks are 20% of the population but every single newsreport is some Black committing some ridiculous, senseless, violent act. It gets to the point where you need to ask, "are we really all the same?" It's built on a myth.
If it's genetic, them how come I'm not committing a crime?
Genetics has nothing to do it. BTW, the news doesn't report everything. You only want to turn this into a "bash the Black man" thread. I don't see how your comment is helping anyone. Please tell me how your comment is productive to help people?
 
Old 11-22-2009, 10:47 AM
 
3,007 posts, read 3,258,596 times
Reputation: 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
Yes it is. That is a direct violation of a persons rights. That is my point. You feel a black person can be stopped simply on the basis of skin color and that is a violation of their rights. Quite simple.
No one is ever stopped merely because of their "skin color." That is just more BS that needs to be shot down. People are stopped because they dress, look, and act like gangbangers, or because they fit a description the police have received from witnesses. If their skin happens to be black, well, then.

Profiling is intelligent, even if it offends your PC sensibilities. It makes sense to stop and question members of a group that is known to be responsible for a lot of crime or terrorist acts. That's why patting down granny at the airport is so absurd. There might be a one in a billion chance that some white granny is secretly a jihadi, but the odds are much higher that the jihadi looks, acts, and dresses like . . . a jihadi!
 
Old 11-22-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,193 posts, read 4,333,945 times
Reputation: 2646
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
that statement is self contradictory citing 2 things as the main reason. The reality is that there are many factors behind the "race" concept as well as poverty.

For example education access. A study done by the brookings institution citied 3 to 1 spending on education in wealthy areas compared to poor areas as well citing that minority dominated schools are much more likely to have inexperienced and less qualified teachers.


Unequal Opportunity: Race and Education - Brookings Institution


Also I would just like to mention to all of you that continue to blame black culture for the problem. Culture and race are not the same thing at all. Southern culture is far different from new england culture or australian culture or european culture. They may all still be white though. Culture is culture and race is race. You are comparing apples and oranges and ignoring a plethora of other factors.
I realize that by admitting that blacks commit more crimes on average, you would feel like you are doing a great injustice in the culture war brewing in this country. But you cannot really believe what you say, can you?

You want to make a connection between poverty and crime, education and crime, racial sentencing and crime, to try to make your point. But it fails because hispanics are just as poor or more poor, just as poorly educated or more poorly educated(many can't even speak english), they are still a minority that many Americans don't trust. Yet a Hispanic man is only 1/3rd as likely to be in prison or jail as a black man.

We can talk about statistics all day long about petty crimes and drug related crime, but the simplest statistic to look at, which cannot be interpreted is murders. People don't just "get off" of murders because they buy their way out like in the drug abuse cases. Yet Blacks are extremely overrepresented in murder cases.

"In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites"
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm (broken link)

Even if education actually was the cause, you have to wonder why then that Blacks are so poorly educated. Is it because they don't have access to an education? Nope. Is it because the High scool education they get is lacking? Nope. It is because almost all black youths in urban areas drop out of high school and never go to college.

Black people just don't value education as much as whites. Almost all of them glorify to some extent the "thug life", they try to "stay black" by listening to rap music and acting and dressing more black. Many successful black men are treated as traitors if they are seen as acting "white".

Its all part of the black culture that may be different from one end of the country to the other, but the whites who are supposedly subjugating them are also different from one end of the country to the other. One of the more "accepting" and multicultural states, where whites aren't even a majority in the state(California), the black crime problem is far far worse than all other areas of the country(Oakland and compton are the worst places to live in the entire country).

Stop trying to make excuses for their bad behavior, blacks have problems and by you trying to pretend that its just the white man trying to cause problems, you are doing them a great injustice. There is already plenty of hatred and resentment flowing through that community.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 11:11 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,992,705 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
If it's genetic, them how come I'm not committing a crime?
Genetics has nothing to do it. BTW, the news doesn't report everything. You only want to turn this into a "bash the Black man" thread. I don't see how your comment is helping anyone. Please tell me how your comment is productive to help people?
I think he's talking about averages. An average would take into account those who commit a lot of crime and those who commit no crime. I think you're fairly intelligent so I'm surprised by your comment. On average blacks do commit more crime than whites.

Genetics is a whole different topic but I would point out that men commit more crime than women and that is genetic. Men have more testosterone than women which makes them bigger and stonger, more impulsive and more aggressive. I'm sure you will be quick to point out that some women commit violent crimes and then we'll have to go around the 'averages' block again.

Finally, there is no requirement that anyone's post should help people.

- Reel
 
Old 11-22-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
878 posts, read 2,494,355 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I realize that by admitting that blacks commit more crimes on average, you would feel like you are doing a great injustice in the culture war brewing in this country. But you cannot really believe what you say, can you?

You want to make a connection between poverty and crime, education and crime, racial sentencing and crime, to try to make your point. But it fails because hispanics are just as poor or more poor, just as poorly educated or more poorly educated(many can't even speak english), they are still a minority that many Americans don't trust. Yet a Hispanic man is only 1/3rd as likely to be in prison or jail as a black man.

We can talk about statistics all day long about petty crimes and drug related crime, but the simplest statistic to look at, which cannot be interpreted is murders. People don't just "get off" of murders because they buy their way out like in the drug abuse cases. Yet Blacks are extremely overrepresented in murder cases.

"In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites"
Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends by race (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm - broken link)

Even if education actually was the cause, you have to wonder why then that Blacks are so poorly educated. Is it because they don't have access to an education? Nope. Is it because the High scool education they get is lacking? Nope. It is because almost all black youths in urban areas drop out of high school and never go to college.

Black people just don't value education as much as whites. Almost all of them glorify to some extent the "thug life", they try to "stay black" by listening to rap music and acting and dressing more black. Many successful black men are treated as traitors if they are seen as acting "white".

Its all part of the black culture that may be different from one end of the country to the other, but the whites who are supposedly subjugating them are also different from one end of the country to the other. One of the more "accepting" and multicultural states, where whites aren't even a majority in the state(California), the black crime problem is far far worse than all other areas of the country(Oakland and compton are the worst places to live in the entire country).

Stop trying to make excuses for their bad behavior, blacks have problems and by you trying to pretend that its just the white man trying to cause problems, you are doing them a great injustice. There is already plenty of hatred and resentment flowing through that community.
If Blacks don't value education as much as Whites than how come based on statistics for each race, proportionately the same amount enter college and obtain degrees? Are you saying that the proportion of the white race that do not attend college, i.e., not valuing education, are more inclined to sit around glorifying redneck culture and trying to stay "white" because if they don't they would appear to be traitors to their culture.

Be that as it may, if you were to examine the figures of the percentage of the White population that obtained degrees in the academic year 2006-2007 and the percentage of the Black population that obtained degrees, you would see the numbers are very similar. True, more Whites obtained degrees since Whites are the majority in America but it would appear that the same percentage of Blacks are out there obtaining their education also:

The figures represented below are based on information from Fast Facts and the current population statistics:


Associate's
Percentage based on current racial Demographics
White
491,572
0.22%
Black
91,529
0.23%

Bachelor's
White
1,099,850
0.50%
Black
146,653
0.37%

Master's
White
399,267
0.18%
Black
62,574
0.16%

First-professional
White
64,546
0.03%
Black
6,474
0.02%

Doctoral
White
34,071
0.02%
Black
3,727
0.01%

The major discrepancy appears to be in the obtainment of a Bachelor's degree. Be that as it may, whatever people believe is fine with with me since these type of topics are always current on CD and people rarely change the way they look at things.

Last edited by drkman; 11-22-2009 at 12:03 PM..
 
Old 11-22-2009, 11:31 AM
 
44,678 posts, read 43,215,754 times
Reputation: 14427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
I think he's talking about averages. An average would take into account those who commit a lot of crime and those who commit no crime. I think you're fairly intelligent so I'm surprised by your comment. On average blacks do commit more crime than whites.

Genetics is a whole different topic but I would point out that men commit more crime than women and that is genetic. Men have more testosterone than women which makes them bigger and stonger, more impulsive and more aggressive. I'm sure you will be quick to point out that some women commit violent crimes and then we'll have to go around the 'averages' block again.

Finally, there is no requirement that anyone's post should help people.

- Reel
Maybe not, but I don't see how mentioning IQ levels are suppose to be helpful to anyone. Most of the time, I have seen posts that pretty much elude to the fact that few people want to be around Black people, even ones like myself. Crime is just an easy denominator. What about the affluent African-American communities out there that aren't violent, that have the family structure there, where people are not killing one another? They are out there. I am the one willing to look for them. I don't see alot of people doing that. I don't see how some posts are suppose to be productive in providing solutions to crime issues. You mention RACE and crime. Well, did you even think about the fact that most crimes committed by African-Americans are against African-Americans. It is an issue of Black on Black crime. That isn't functional for African-Americans, or anyone. Some African-Americans try to escape crime-ridden areas and some people who see Blacks coming in get alarmed about it, whether or not they bring in crime or not.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 11:42 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,992,705 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Maybe not, but I don't see how mentioning IQ levels are suppose to be helpful to anyone. Most of the time, I have seen posts that pretty much elude to the fact that few people want to be around Black people, even ones like myself. Crime is just an easy denominator. What about the affluent African-American communities out there that aren't violent, that have the family structure there, where people are not killing one another? They are out there. I am the one willing to look for them. I don't see alot of people doing that. I don't see how some posts are suppose to be productive in providing solutions to crime issues. You mention RACE and crime. Well, did you even think about the fact that most crimes committed by African-Americans are against African-Americans. It is an issue of Black on Black crime. That isn't functional for African-Americans, or anyone. Some African-Americans try to escape crime-ridden areas and some people who see Blacks coming in get alarmed about it, whether or not they bring in crime or not.
I don't see where the poster that you quoted mentioned anything about IQ. I don't think the poster that you quoted was attempting to offer any solutions. I don't think the fact that most black crime is perpetrated against other blacks in any way refutes the posters claim.

Finally, you are correct. The majority of blacks do not commit crimes. I've not heard anyone suggest that this may be the case. Assuming that blacks commit most crimes, it does not follow that most blacks commit crime. That's not logical. I think that's where your thinking goes off the track. Nobody is saying that.

- Reel
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