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Old 01-03-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,105,255 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
There are approximately 39 million blacks in this country and approximately 210 million whites. In 2008 blacks committed 5943 murders and whites committed 5334 murders.

In 2008 only 13% of the population committed approximately the same number of murders as 70% of the population.

Would you mind explaining to me and the other readers how this is not a higher murder rate for blacks?

I await your reply. Thank you,

- Reel
1. Your math/statistics are wrong, again. There are approx -

40 million black Americans
46 million Hispanic American
14 million Asian Americans
4 million native Americans
6+/- million Mixed Racial americans

That = 110 million nonwhite Americans and 190 million white Americans, not 210 million.

2. African Americans are murdered and murder only SLIGHTLY more often than whites. (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_06.html - broken link)

Likewise, even the UCR data shows that 1/4 of all murders are roughly unknown to who committed them. With a 28% margin of error, you cannot give hardline statistical inferences. The UCR/FBI themselves even state this on their front page. But you already know this.

3. As Ive told you, now 6 times, crime correlates more with poverty than with race.

And since white employers pay blacks and hispanics less for the same jobs, give harsher sentences than whites for the same crimes, and PROFILE blacks and hispanics more often for crimes whites are overwhelmingly more likely to commit, the result = Blacks and Hispanics are over represented.

Again and again you make these blatantly false claims with no or weak sources, and again and again I shoot them down. Why continue? You know the facts arent on your side. Why try to convince people of a lie that even you know isnt true?

 
Old 01-04-2010, 05:47 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,814,230 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
1. Your math/statistics are wrong, again. There are approx -

40 million black Americans
46 million Hispanic American
14 million Asian Americans
4 million native Americans
6+/- million Mixed Racial americans

That = 110 million nonwhite Americans and 190 million white Americans, not 210 million.

2. African Americans are murdered and murder only SLIGHTLY more often than whites. (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_06.html - broken link)

Likewise, even the UCR data shows that 1/4 of all murders are roughly unknown to who committed them. With a 28% margin of error, you cannot give hardline statistical inferences. The UCR/FBI themselves even state this on their front page. But you already know this.

Quote:
3. As Ive told you, now 6 times, crime correlates more with poverty than with race.
And since white employers pay blacks and hispanics less for the same jobs, give harsher sentences than whites for the same crimes, and PROFILE blacks and hispanics more often for crimes whites are overwhelmingly more likely to commit, the result = Blacks and Hispanics are over represented.

Again and again you make these blatantly false claims with no or weak sources, and again and again I shoot them down. Why continue? You know the facts arent on your side. Why try to convince people of a lie that even you know isnt true?
I agree to some extent, but you don't see as much of this stuff ( same race killings)in poor white communities, that you see in poor black communities.
 
Old 01-04-2010, 05:49 AM
 
394 posts, read 442,405 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
Well interesting the OP stated that the blacks on average have a higher crime rate than whites, however I like to point here in Australia Aborignals are more likely to be imprisoned compared to non Aboriginals.

For Aboriginal men the rate of imprisonment increased by 27 per cent in the years between 2000 and 2008, and for women, by more than 40 per cent. Indigenous adults are now 13 times more likely than non-indigenous adults to be sent to gaol, and they're much more likely to re-offend.
I think it's safe to say when the people were speaking of "blacks" they were referring to African-Americans. I've also noticed that blacks from other countries have a different mindset. Some blacks straight from Africa actually dislike black people here in America.
 
Old 01-04-2010, 06:33 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,991,284 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
1. Your math/statistics are wrong, again. There are approx -

40 million black Americans
46 million Hispanic American
14 million Asian Americans
4 million native Americans
6+/- million Mixed Racial americans

That = 110 million nonwhite Americans and 190 million white Americans, not 210 million.

2. African Americans are murdered and murder only SLIGHTLY more often than whites. (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_06.html - broken link)

Likewise, even the UCR data shows that 1/4 of all murders are roughly unknown to who committed them. With a 28% margin of error, you cannot give hardline statistical inferences. The UCR/FBI themselves even state this on their front page. But you already know this.

3. As Ive told you, now 6 times, crime correlates more with poverty than with race.

And since white employers pay blacks and hispanics less for the same jobs, give harsher sentences than whites for the same crimes, and PROFILE blacks and hispanics more often for crimes whites are overwhelmingly more likely to commit, the result = Blacks and Hispanics are over represented.

Again and again you make these blatantly false claims with no or weak sources, and again and again I shoot them down. Why continue? You know the facts arent on your side. Why try to convince people of a lie that even you know isnt true?
Friend, 40 million blacks and 190 million whites and blacks committing slightly more murders still represents a substantially higher murder rate for blacks.

This is 8th grade math. I gave you the formula. Do the math.

If you don't understand percentages and rates, you are not qualified to have this conversation. It's out of the scope for this debate for me to try to educate you. You should really try to familiarize yourself with these concepts before you try to have a conversation about them.

The very information that you provide above in your effort to refute my point actually confirms my point and you don't even know it.

- Reel
 
Old 01-04-2010, 06:45 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,991,284 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
40 million black Americans

That = 110 million nonwhite Americans and 190 million white Americans, not 210 million.

2. African Americans are murdered and murder only SLIGHTLY more often than whites. (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_06.html - broken link)

3. As Ive told you, now 6 times, crime correlates more with poverty than with race.

And since white employers pay blacks and hispanics less for the same jobs, give harsher sentences than whites for the same crimes, and PROFILE blacks and hispanics more often for crimes whites are overwhelmingly more likely to commit, the result = Blacks and Hispanics are over represented.

Again and again you make these blatantly false claims with no or weak sources, and again and again I shoot them down. Why continue? You know the facts arent on your side. Why try to convince people of a lie that even you know isnt true?
Wrong. And again your own post proves you wrong. Check out the math. Approximately 25% of blacks and 10% of whites live in poverty. With 40 million blacks and 190 million whites there are more whites living in poverty than there are blacks living in poverty. Yet, as you say, blacks commit more murder even though there are less poor blacks. Obviously poverty is not the issue.

- Reel
 
Old 01-04-2010, 10:26 AM
 
44,611 posts, read 43,144,135 times
Reputation: 14405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
Wrong. And again your own post proves you wrong. Check out the math. Approximately 25% of blacks and 10% of whites live in poverty. With 40 million blacks and 190 million whites there are more whites living in poverty than there are blacks living in poverty. Yet, as you say, blacks commit more murder even though there are less poor blacks. Obviously poverty is not the issue.

- Reel
There are 40 million African-Americans and a poverty rate of about 25%. There is a a higher RATE of poverty, so this correlates with a higher RATE of crime. Like you said, there is a higher RATE of crime among African-Americans, well, apply that to the poverty rate. There is a higher rate of poverty as well, so poverty is a strong issue. There is a higher proportion of African-Americans living in poverty.
 
Old 01-04-2010, 12:00 PM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,991,284 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
There are 40 million African-Americans and a poverty rate of about 25%. There is a a higher RATE of poverty, so this correlates with a higher RATE of crime. Like you said, there is a higher RATE of crime among African-Americans, well, apply that to the poverty rate. There is a higher rate of poverty as well, so poverty is a strong issue. There is a higher proportion of African-Americans living in poverty.
No, that's not logical. The murder rate among the 25% of poor blacks is higher than the murder rate of the 10% of poor whites. If there were more poor blacks than there were poor whites then what you are saying would be logical.

One would expect more murders from a larger number of people. But just because the poverty rate for blacks is higher than it is for whites does not mean that there are more blacks than whites living in poverty.

In fact, there are more whites living in poverty than there are blacks living in poverty. But when we talk about 'rates' we eliminate raw numbers from the equation. So it doesn't matter whether there are more poor whites or more poor blacks. The murder rate for poor blacks is higher than the murder rate of poor whites. We are not saying there are more murders by blacks we are saying that the rate of murder is higher for blacks.

I think that's pretty clear but I could try to explain it again if you are still confused.

- Reel
 
Old 01-04-2010, 01:04 PM
 
457 posts, read 979,086 times
Reputation: 314
I would just give up trying to show them the light. It's obvious to anyone who's eyes aren't closed who commits the majority of violent crimes / murders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
No, that's not logical. The murder rate among the 25% of poor blacks is higher than the murder rate of the 10% of poor whites. If there were more poor blacks than there were poor whites then what you are saying would be logical.

One would expect more murders from a larger number of people. But just because the poverty rate for blacks is higher than it is for whites does not mean that there are more blacks than whites living in poverty.

In fact, there are more whites living in poverty than there are blacks living in poverty. But when we talk about 'rates' we eliminate raw numbers from the equation. So it doesn't matter whether there are more poor whites or more poor blacks. The murder rate for poor blacks is higher than the murder rate of poor whites. We are not saying there are more murders by blacks we are saying that the rate of murder is higher for blacks.

I think that's pretty clear but I could try to explain it again if you are still confused.

- Reel
 
Old 01-04-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,075,346 times
Reputation: 2244
im sure everyone let you have it already. but let me present some evidence...

baldwin hills, ca. predominantly black. lots of money. one of the nicest areas of LA. low crime rates.

its not the color, its the economics.
dont be so simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NGX159 View Post
I'm not being racist when I say this(can't I'm black too) that if the black population is above 30% the crime rate is higher, if the black population is higher than other races and make up a majority, the crime rate skyrockets. And if it's equal to any other race, it skyrockets as well.

Then when I find places where the white population is about 80-90 %, there's hardly any crime at all.

Is a higher population in Blacks in towns and cities forcing people to move???
 
Old 01-04-2010, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,105,255 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
I agree to some extent, but you don't see as much of this stuff ( same race killings)in poor white communities, that you see in poor black communities.
According to UCR crime compilated data, you do. It is spread out more evenly because there are more whites, but its there. Also, take into consideration the media often does not give the same attention to white crime in smaller or poor white communities as it does in big black/hispanic ones. Mid-to-Small sized white cities like Plano, Missoula, Spokane, Pocatello, Omaha, Duluth, Upstate NY, Outer Pittsburg etc have always had crime problems, but rarely get the same coverage as places such as Detriot and LA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reelist
Wrong. And again your own post proves you wrong. Check out the math. Approximately 25% of blacks and 10% of whites live in poverty. With 40 million blacks and 190 million whites there are more whites living in poverty than there are blacks living in poverty. Yet, as you say, blacks commit more murder even though there are less poor blacks. Obviously poverty is not the issue.
???

AGAIN you are making up numbers. And you did not even read the freaking post, or at least click the link. Crime correlates almost directly with poverty, while it does not on both ends equate with race. Go re-read the citations given.

Stop making up your own math and read the academic research sourced.

Last edited by tindo80; 01-04-2010 at 01:56 PM..
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