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Old 01-04-2010, 03:38 PM
 
44,611 posts, read 43,144,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
No, that's not logical. The murder rate among the 25% of poor blacks is higher than the murder rate of the 10% of poor whites. If there were more poor blacks than there were poor whites then what you are saying would be logical.

One would expect more murders from a larger number of people. But just because the poverty rate for blacks is higher than it is for whites does not mean that there are more blacks than whites living in poverty.

In fact, there are more whites living in poverty than there are blacks living in poverty. But when we talk about 'rates' we eliminate raw numbers from the equation. So it doesn't matter whether there are more poor whites or more poor blacks. The murder rate for poor blacks is higher than the murder rate of poor whites. We are not saying there are more murders by blacks we are saying that the rate of murder is higher for blacks.

I think that's pretty clear but I could try to explain it again if you are still confused.

- Reel
I am not confused. Here is another example to prove my point. Russia has half of the population that the USA does(and getting smaller due to aging population and high infant mortality rate) and yet, Russia has almost four times the murder rate the USA has and almost twice as many murders as the USA. Russia has a much higher poverty rate than the USA and a very high disatisfaction with the government. One would think that a nation with a smaller population might have less murders, but in Russia's case, that isn't true. With African-Americans, that isn't the case either. There is a higher poverty rate among African-Americans so a higher crime rate has occured.

 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,814,230 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
According to UCR crime compilated data, you do. It is spread out more evenly because there are more whites, but its there. Also, take into consideration the media often does not give the same attention to white crime in smaller or poor white communities as it does in big black/hispanic ones. Mid-to-Small sized white cities like Plano, Missoula, Spokane, Pocatello, Omaha, Duluth, Upstate NY,
Quote:
Outer Pittsburg
etc have always had crime problems, but rarely get the same coverage as places such as Detriot and LA.



???

AGAIN you are making up numbers. And you did not even read the freaking post, or at least click the link. Crime correlates almost directly with poverty, while it does not on both ends equate with race. Go re-read the citations given.

Stop making up your own math and read the academic research sourced.
And you know this,how ? I am about 20 mi from Pittsburgh and don't see it.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:45 AM
 
44,611 posts, read 43,144,135 times
Reputation: 14405
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
According to UCR crime compilated data, you do. It is spread out more evenly because there are more whites, but its there. Also, take into consideration the media often does not give the same attention to white crime in smaller or poor white communities as it does in big black/hispanic ones. Mid-to-Small sized white cities like Plano, Missoula, Spokane, Pocatello, Omaha, Duluth, Upstate NY, Outer Pittsburg etc have always had crime problems, but rarely get the same coverage as places such as Detriot and LA.



???

AGAIN you are making up numbers. And you did not even read the freaking post, or at least click the link. Crime correlates almost directly with poverty, while it does not on both ends equate with race. Go re-read the citations given.

Stop making up your own math and read the academic research sourced.
You brought up a factor that few people would ever think of bring up. The news is very biased. Every time I go on the news(which is part of why I don't watch the news) I always here about Blacks or Hispanics doing stuff. The news tends to blow things out of proportion. Statistically, there may be more crimes per-capita for African-Americans, but when speaking of raw numbers, the number of crimes for Blacks and Whites are very close. The media would have you think otherwise. You can't always count of the media because the media won't always tell the truth.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 11:46 AM
 
44,611 posts, read 43,144,135 times
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This is an article I strongly insist that everyone read. RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS
 
Old 01-05-2010, 12:19 PM
 
195 posts, read 195,475 times
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Any one have stats on the crime rate of professional middle and upper middle class blacks in comparison to white people? That would solve the issue once and for all.
 
Old 01-05-2010, 12:43 PM
SWV
 
Location: After College Brooklyn/Bronx/Queens NYC
445 posts, read 1,192,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranded and Lonely View Post
Any one have stats on the crime rate of professional middle and upper middle class blacks in comparison to white people? That would solve the issue once and for all.

hmm..
 
Old 01-05-2010, 01:09 PM
 
44,611 posts, read 43,144,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranded and Lonely View Post
Any one have stats on the crime rate of professional middle and upper middle class blacks in comparison to white people? That would solve the issue once and for all.
Something to think about. There are other crimes to think about besides murder and assault. There are also crimes of the "white collar" variety, such as credit card scams, computer hacking, identity theft, and some other stuff. For example, robbery. I have personal experience with this as I was mugged and $10 was stolen from me. As scary as that was for me, I would be equally scared of someone stealing my identity or getting my debit card number/security number. Both are stealing and both are wrong. With that said, the idetity theft would cost me more than $10. Identity theft costs people in American millions every year, more than unarmed robbery.
 
Old 01-06-2010, 05:16 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,991,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I am not confused. Here is another example to prove my point. Russia has half of the population that the USA does(and getting smaller due to aging population and high infant mortality rate) and yet, Russia has almost four times the murder rate the USA has and almost twice as many murders as the USA. Russia has a much higher poverty rate than the USA and a very high disatisfaction with the government. One would think that a nation with a smaller population might have less murders, but in Russia's case, that isn't true. With African-Americans, that isn't the case either. There is a higher poverty rate among African-Americans so a higher crime rate has occured.
You are talking about two different things. In the Russian example you are talking about the entire population. What you are saying would make sense if there were an equal number of blacks and whites in the US. In that case the 25% of black poor would be more people than the 10% of white poor.

But in reality, the 25% of black poor represents far fewer people than the 10% of white poor. Again, there are far more poor whites than there are poor blacks. If more poor people equals more crime then we would see more crime by whites because there are far more poor whites.

Even if all of the murders were committed by poor people, we would have more of it committed by fewer people. The higher rate of poor among blacks DOES NOT equate to more poor blacks than poor whites.

The only way your analysis would work out is if the higher rate of poor blacks resulte in more poor blacks than poor whites. It does not.

- Reel
 
Old 01-06-2010, 08:00 AM
 
44,611 posts, read 43,144,135 times
Reputation: 14405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
You are talking about two different things. In the Russian example you are talking about the entire population. What you are saying would make sense if there were an equal number of blacks and whites in the US. In that case the 25% of black poor would be more people than the 10% of white poor.

But in reality, the 25% of black poor represents far fewer people than the 10% of white poor. Again, there are far more poor whites than there are poor blacks. If more poor people equals more crime then we would see more crime by whites because there are far more poor whites.

Even if all of the murders were committed by poor people, we would have more of it committed by fewer people. The higher rate of poor among blacks DOES NOT equate to more poor blacks than poor whites.

The only way your analysis would work out is if the higher rate of poor blacks resulte in more poor blacks than poor whites. It does not.

- Reel
Different population, same situation. You can't refute the fact that a higher poverty rate and more desperaate conditions can lead to higher crime rates, as I just showed you. Entire population, perhaps. If you count African-Americans as an entire population, and consider the murder rate, well the murder rate would be around 14 murders per 100,000 people. Russia's murder rate is about 20 murders per 100,000 people. Much higher murder rate and many more murders. Higher(put rapidly dropping) population. Similar problems, high poverty rates, higher concetration of other social ills within the African-American community, that also exist in Russia, at very high rates. In fact, in the 1990's, there were alot of murders, not just related to the civilian population, but among the Russian Mafia, in the form of bombings and mass arson. There are very few Black people in Russia and the murder rate in that nation is much higher than the USA.
Higher poverty rates,and more concentrated poverty often result in higher crime rates. Alot of poor Blacks tend to live in places where poverty is concetrated much higher and basically, poverty among Whites tends to be more spread out. And think about this, most Blacks do not committ crimes. What kinds of crimes are going on?
Another factor to look at. Find resources examining the crime rates between middle-class African-Americans and middle class Whites, and look at all the crimes from murder to White collar crimes.
 
Old 01-06-2010, 08:44 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 1,991,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Different population, same situation. You can't refute the fact that a higher poverty rate and more desperaate conditions can lead to higher crime rates, as I just showed you. Entire population, perhaps. If you count African-Americans as an entire population, and consider the murder rate, well the murder rate would be around 14 murders per 100,000 people. Russia's murder rate is about 20 murders per 100,000 people. Much higher murder rate and many more murders. Higher(put rapidly dropping) population. Similar problems, high poverty rates, higher concetration of other social ills within the African-American community, that also exist in Russia, at very high rates. In fact, in the 1990's, there were alot of murders, not just related to the civilian population, but among the Russian Mafia, in the form of bombings and mass arson. There are very few Black people in Russia and the murder rate in that nation is much higher than the USA.
Higher poverty rates,and more concentrated poverty often result in higher crime rates. Alot of poor Blacks tend to live in places where poverty is concetrated much higher and basically, poverty among Whites tends to be more spread out. And think about this, most Blacks do not committ crimes. What kinds of crimes are going on?
Another factor to look at. Find resources examining the crime rates between middle-class African-Americans and middle class Whites, and look at all the crimes from murder to White collar crimes.
If you are correct then the murder rate for all poor blacks should be the same as the murder rate for all poor whites. I have no doubt that the murder rate for poor blacks is far higher than the murder rate for poor whites. Do you have any statistics on this? I don't really feel like looking for it but I'm willing to bet that I'm correct.

Now you're throwing another factor into the mix. Now you're saying that poor blacks have a higher murder rate because there are more people to murder? I'd be willing to make you another bet. I'll bet you that the murder rate among middle class blacks is higher than the murder rate for middle class whites. Go prove me wrong.

By the way, we are talking about the United States of America.

- Reel
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