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View Poll Results: What do you think of feminism?
I approve of feminism 57 58.16%
I strongly disapprove of feminism 41 41.84%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-23-2009, 05:29 AM
 
Location: The Land Mass Between NOLA and Mobile, AL
1,796 posts, read 1,296,388 times
Reputation: 1398

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Wish I could rep you again.

Militant feminism has bred large numbers of women with absolutely insufferable attitudes. It is especially bad here in the Bay Area.

My favorite people have always been women. And many years ago I would have told you that my least favorite people were almost all men. But today, sadly, most of my least favorite people are also women.
Let me just say I would like to read examples of that. As I said above, I wear dresses and skirts all the time, I wear makeup and heels, and no one could guess from my appearance that I am a feminist. Yet that part of my identity informs everything that I am. If I wouldn't, for the sake of argument, have fit into the neighborhood that you are talking about, then how would that have been? How has what you call "militant feminism" left women with what you call "insufferable attitudes?" I really what to know: what, exactly, are you talking about? A specific story might be instructive here, I don't know. I've offered a quite painful one which you haven't responded to--that basic experience, and believe me, that's only the half of it, has shaped my embrace of feminism. That's ok, but I'm left wondering who you have in mind when you have posted your ideas about feminists?
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:56 AM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,035,622 times
Reputation: 5929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
I am very sorry you had to endure this. Sadly it is not an uncommon experience for many. All woman who were brave, and unwavering in their opinions paved the way for women today having things more balanced and equal. Feminist leaders, and women like LML and chielgirl all contributed in their own way making things better for our daughters. I am still saddened when I see people, particularly women on this thread, who don't understand the magnitude of the changes that have occurred, and what the the real implications in their daily lives would be if things had indeed not changed.
Good post. A total lack of education in history that involves women is one cause. Some people have no idea what women have gone through and how lucky they are that feminists fought for women to be considered HUMAN.

One poster called feminists insufferable.....completely ignoring how insufferable men have been to women throughout history.

Anyway, those that refuse to read or learn about it will always think of women as "something different" than a man with different "rules"....fortunately there will also always be women to spit it back in their faces, be insufferable, unladylike and CHANGE things for the better....like they have always done..
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: The Land Mass Between NOLA and Mobile, AL
1,796 posts, read 1,296,388 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Since you brought up the subject of young girls, I want to express my biggest pet peeves about female childhood.

1 - the clothing choices available is so trashy and sexual that I'm appalled.
2 - marketing to parents/kids in a sexual way. It destroys innocence way before it need be. As long as parental units accept this marketing, it will continue to erode childhood.
I agree, and I don't know what to do about that. As a confident woman, I have no problem appearing to be what many men think is sexy, and again, I merely do so because it pleases me, because on some level, I am in love with being a woman. I can smack most men down verbally or do whatever else needs to be done should they get too sassy. A teenaged or younger girl doesn't yet have those tools and resources. I hate to see young girls at the mall or wherever wearing tiny skirts and tops. I know they are ripe for exploitation, and my heart aches for them.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,817,556 times
Reputation: 14681
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Since you brought up the subject of young girls, I want to express my biggest pet peeves about female childhood.

1 - the clothing choices available is so trashy and sexual that I'm appalled.
2 - marketing to parents/kids in a sexual way. It destroys innocence way before it need be. As long as parental units accept this marketing, it will continue to erode childhood.
I couldn't agree more.

It is very scary for me raisng, particulary a daughter, in the environment you mentioned above. I will admit to doing what I can to prolong my children's innocence on some levels, but it is extremely hard. I am by no means a puritan, not at all, but I want them to enjoy the simple things of childhood for now. I am lucky that my children are relatively young, and ultimately have to abide by my rules. I know that changes a little by teenhood, but hopefully the foundations will be laid by then. I do think parents can choose whether they want to follow the herd with the way they parent, or stick to their principles. It is easy to shirk a little parental responsibility by blaming the media, current trends, or peers for influencing a childs clothing, music, language, etc. But ultimately for me, I am quite capable of saying no, and I do it often. No low-rider skinny jeans for the 6 year old, not yet. There were 5 year-old girls in my son's kindergarten class wearing thongs sticking out of their low-riders .

Another growing trend that for me is even worse is the way some mothers are quite proudly raising "mean-girls". These are mother's who openly and loudly criticize other women, but usually more brutally, criticize and put down their daughters peers. You read about them all the time picking on some poor kid on Facebook all because there was some perceived slight against their little angel. They are growing in numbers, and are truly repugnant. You see them at sporting events, or on the PTA. They are ultimately just bullies. I do believe sometimes people confuse these types with feminists. Just because they are loud, and are raising a daughter to take what she wants at all costs, regardless of who she walks over to get it, does not make them a feminist.

I want my kids to be able to make decisions for themselves, not follow the herd. I want them to be kind to others, realize their potential, and be happy and fulfilled. If wearing skinny jeans at 6 results in happy kids, then I'm screwed, but somehow I don't think it does.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,051,464 times
Reputation: 18436
I approve absolutely.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,067,729 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
I asked. So far, nothing. I'll keep reading.
Feminism does not = women. Remove that from you r question and you may get an answer.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,166,306 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcCoySays View Post
Well in my personal experience, some women who may consider themselves anti-feminist aren't necessarily subserviant, but they just don't agree with some of the more extreme views of some "feminazis". So they may just disassociate themselves with the "movement" altogether.

For instance, my mom has been a single mother, a strong, independent black woman who makes her own money, and doesn't put up with mess from any man (including me lol). But I don't think she considers herself a feminist. Just a woman doin her thing.
She may not consider herself a feminist, but many other people would consider her to be one. Because as little as 50-60 years ago, she wouldn't have been able to 'do her own thing'. And that was a large part of the beginnings of the feminist movement - to allow women to 'do their own thing' without having to depend on a man for a livelihood if she didn't want to.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,166,306 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
There's discrimination everywhere, it's just different and most people don't see it as such. I also work in a hospital, whenever theres a heavy patient guess who they call? Whenever there's heavy lifting or a physical task it's my shoulder that gets tapped. For the most part I don't care but every once and a while when my back hurts and there's three women standing there looking at me it irks me.
As someone who has a bad back, that would irk me as well. When I'm trying to carry a couple of heavy grocery bags while using my cane and my sons just sit and look at me, it can get me in quite a rage.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,067,729 times
Reputation: 937
Default Tilting at windmills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D View Post
LML - most young women today can't understand what is was like or what you went through. I can't either. That said, that was a long time ago. Women today don't have to deal with those conditions. Women have won the right to equality. Along with that right comes certain responsibilities. Any woman that works for me is treated with the same respect as any man. I
am an equal opportunity hard@@@.
What you remember are a few facts and a lot of fiction. All this self described horror endured is mostly a romantic trick of time. What occurred was plain old social change. Happens all the time. You didn't storm the Bastille. And along the way you mucked things up in ways that are still unfolding. We'll have to wait and see.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,166,306 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3vault View Post
It's not just firefighters. Take a look at the Army PFT.

Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT)

A man who runs a 16:00 2 mile is failed and could be kicked out

A woman who runs a 16:00 2 mile gets a 95 and put on the fast track for promotion.

They're doing the same job....hence, there should be the same standards. If the male standards are what is truly required for the job, the women need to meet them. If the female standards are what is truly required, then there is no reason to hold men to a not job related higher standard.

Same job, same pay....feminists seem to obsess over this.....same standards.....ehhh not so much, so long as males are the ones being held to higher standards....

That isn't equality. That's supremacy.
And, believe it or not, this woman agrees with that. When a woman wants to obtain a traditionally male job, she should be held to the exact same standards as any man would be held to. And if the standards actually exceed what is needed to do the job, then they should be lowered - and not only for the women, but for everyone.
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