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Old 11-19-2009, 01:33 PM
 
39,020 posts, read 23,141,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Eric Holder even has said we have never captured a foreign terrorist on a foreign battlefield and brought them to America for trial
Why is it such a matter of contention where someone was apprehended?
We extradite people all the time from one jurisdiction to another. In this case, we extradited a terrorist from military jurisdiction to civilian jurisdiction? Didn't we?
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:38 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,679,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Why is it such a matter of contention where someone was apprehended?
We extradite people all the time from one jurisdiction to another. In this case, we extradited a terrorist from military jurisdiction to civilian jurisdiction? Didn't we?
I haven't followed this discussion so excuse me if I'm off topic. In my opinion, the concern is the drastically different rules and methods of functioning between the military and civilian police. They operate under completely different systems, and it's not reasonable to expect the military to follow the same rules as the police. They find out where a guy is and kick in the door versus getting a warrant. They have to move very quickly and are often under fire and don't have the luxury of the same circumstances like taping off an area to gather evidence and interview witnesses, and mark spent shells on the sidewalk for forensics.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:43 PM
 
39,020 posts, read 23,141,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
I haven't followed this discussion so excuse me if I'm off topic. In my opinion, the concern is the drastically different rules and methods of functioning between the military and civilian police. They operate under completely different systems, and it's not reasonable to expect the military to follow the same rules as the police. They find out where a guy is and kick in the door versus getting a warrant. They have to move very quickly and are often under fire and don't have the luxury of the same circumstances like taping off an area to gather evidence and interview witnesses, and mark spent shells on the sidewalk for forensics.
I appreciate the different rules. Different rules apply in different jurisdictions, too. And bounty hunters don't have to follow the same rules as civilian police.
I don't think that AG Holder made this decision lightly. I'm sure the Justice Department did a careful vetting of the evidence that would be available to the prosecution and evidence that might be challenged. They have no intention of letting KSM go. So given that, why is it such a matter of contention that we captured KSM in foreign territory?
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:57 PM
 
23,873 posts, read 17,571,986 times
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holder is wayyyy over his head.

way to pick 'em, bammers!
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,509,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Why is it such a matter of contention where someone was apprehended?
We extradite people all the time from one jurisdiction to another. In this case, we extradited a terrorist from military jurisdiction to civilian jurisdiction? Didn't we?
Name one enemy combatant that was captured on foreign soil and tried in civilian American court, any war any time in history that this has happened
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Name one enemy combatant that was captured on foreign soil and tried in civilian American court, any war any time in history that this has happened
This hasn't happened before. So what????

Because it hasn't happened before, it shouldn't ever happen? That's not an argument. Make an argument for why it shouldn't happen, and make a good argument.

We extradite people, even from foreign soil, and successfully try them.

We have tried terrorists before, in NYC, in federal court, with success.

We actually have court precedents recognizing that different authorities have different standards for the treatment of prisoners.
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,509,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I appreciate the different rules. Different rules apply in different jurisdictions, too. And bounty hunters don't have to follow the same rules as civilian police.
I don't think that AG Holder made this decision lightly. I'm sure the Justice Department did a careful vetting of the evidence that would be available to the prosecution and evidence that might be challenged. They have no intention of letting KSM go. So given that, why is it such a matter of contention that we captured KSM in foreign territory?
He made this choice because he knew he could call Rove Bush and Cheney to testify.
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,509,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
This hasn't happened before. So what????

Because it hasn't happened before, it shouldn't ever happen? That's not an argument. Make an argument for why it shouldn't happen, and make a good argument.

We extradite people, even from foreign soil, and successfully try them.

We have tried terrorists before, in NYC, in federal court, with success.

We actually have court precedents recognizing that different authorities have different standards for the treatment of prisoners.
The reason it has not happened is because military tribunals are used. The guy already confessed and a tribunal would execute him. Her his very confession will be ruled not admissible. Why would Holder do this? To put bush and Chaney on the stand. This is a terrible error .
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,205 posts, read 7,340,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
The reason it has not happened is because military tribunals are used. The guy already confessed and a tribunal would execute him. Her his very confession will be ruled not admissible. Why would Holder do this? To put bush and Chaney on the stand. This is a terrible error .
Why would his confession not be admissible? He made a video for his followers before he was even captured taking full credit for the attack and detailing exactly how he did it. Why would they not admit that confession/boast into court and skip all the bull that was obtained with torture?
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,155 posts, read 16,871,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
The reason it has not happened is because military tribunals are used. The guy already confessed and a tribunal would execute him. Her his very confession will be ruled not admissible. Why would Holder do this? To put bush and Chaney on the stand. This is a terrible error .
I agree. I think it is a calculated (but terrible) move. There's more to this decision than we know, and whatever it is, it's designed to be in the Administration's favor.
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