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Old 11-19-2009, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
you watched that Sarah palin interview didn't you ....
??? No, sorry.... Can't stand the wench and am certainly not a right-leaning individual who would give a rat's behind what her thoughts are... Please stop looking into some political motive on my part in this thread... Thanks....
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,006 posts, read 15,171,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
The Patriot Act being a shining example?

If you want to get into partisan bickering there are literally hundreds of other threads to go pick a fight. Feel free to do so there. I asked a simple question that had no partisan angle but was meant for discussion. Go troll elsewhere if that's more to your liking...

My point to this thread is that it is an obvious give and take that our Constitutional freedoms, while broad, numerous and wonderful, also get used against us by our enemies..... My question is whether, in light of this, those that penned and signed the Constitution might have strengthened particular provisions and allowances or made them more specific as to times or circumstances where some of those right might be forfeit to SOME individuals....

The problemis , of course, being that there is a LOT of room for abuse of power which is why it would be in the hands of those who knew how to write such clauses and be crystal clear at times, while purposefully vague at others.......

Would they have, perhaps, been more clear had they known what the future held?
The Traitor Act was bi-partisan, carried out by two wings of the same dirty bird.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I take issue with the suggestion that our biggest war is against a religion. Our biggest war isn't against a religion, it's against enemies justifying their hate and aggression with a misinterpretation of certain religious texts.
Did I not say "A radical form" ???

You can take issue with our enemy not being radical muslims all you wish, but they have, in no uncertain terms, declared war on us and our country.

Notice I didn't claim that we are at war with the entire religion?

This is another part of what makes this so difficult and another reason for my question..... Our war is technically against SOME Muslims, but not even the majority of them.... An obvious tact to keep us safer would be to screen Arabs much closer than most, but that is not "Constitutional"...

I'm simply posing the question on how this might have been dealt with if we had it to do over again....
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
The Traitor Act was bi-partisan, carried out by two wings of the same dirty bird.
I'll assume you're referring to the Patriot Act???

But regardless yes, this is the type of tight-rope act with the Constitution I'm referring to.....

With such broad support at that time (2001, 2006) for an act that obviously grays some of the Constitutional lines, do you think the Constitution would have been written differently with this in mind?
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:49 AM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
I know on the topic of criminalizing drugs, and prostitution, they would definitely have laid it out more specifically. You can't outlaw a plant, and you can't legislate morality. They never would have thought people would be so cruel as to imprison an adult for a personal choice.
Heck with most of our current laws regarding the cultivation of hemp...several of our most promenant founding fathers would be getting prison terms were they around today.

One of the greatest ironies regarding our drug laws is that the very paper the constitution and declaration of independence are printed on is illegal to produce today in most jurisdictions.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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The constitution was made to be fixed upon time to time. If it needs to be repaired, then we have an ammedment process.

Of course most logical thinking people would never ratify an ammendment that took away our freedom of religion.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:58 AM
 
6,550 posts, read 12,606,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
The constitution was made to be fixed upon time to time. If it needs to be repaired, then we have an ammedment process.

Of course most logical thinking people would never ratify an ammendment that took away our freedom of religion.
Of course not..... I'm just wondering if that freedom might be redefined (not taken away) if they had it to do over I guess....

I mean if Imams declare that a certain sect of Islam is at war with the United States, it seems weird that, according to our Constitution, we would need to afford members of that sect all the rights afforded members of any other religion....

IOW I dont think it was ever conceived that a religion COULD declare war on a nation..... I understand that hasn't occured en masse or anything as of yet, but I hear more reactionary folks that DO actually claim this type of thing (that a religion IS at war with us) and it got me thinking along these lines.....
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:02 AM
 
6,550 posts, read 12,606,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Heck with most of our current laws regarding the cultivation of hemp...several of our most promenant founding fathers would be getting prison terms were they around today.

One of the greatest ironies regarding our drug laws is that the very paper the constitution and declaration of independence are printed on is illegal to produce today in most jurisdictions.
Great point... This is the kind of thing I wonder about as well... There's no amendment I'm aware of that allows for this, yet it's done... Would they have been a bit more clear if they had it to do over? Or is it a situation where our Constitution would have been 8000 pages long if they made a clause for every potential situation..?

Probably the latter, but would they re-write anything knowing what we know now?
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,304,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Of course not..... I'm just wondering if that freedom might be redefined (not taken away) if they had it to do over I guess....

I mean if Imams declare that a certain sect of Islam is at war with the United States, it seems weird that, according to our Constitution, we would need to afford members of that sect all the rights afforded members of any other religion....

IOW I dont think it was ever conceived that a religion COULD declare war on a nation..... I understand that hasn't occured en masse or anything as of yet, but I hear more reactionary folks that DO actually claim this type of thing (that a religion IS at war with us) and it got me thinking along these lines.....

95% of Muslims in this country are peace loving, God fearing, good honest people.

I don't think we should go singling them out, to try and avoid contact with a few radicals.

The odds of you being struck by lightning are greater than those of you being killed by a terrorist attack.

One of the great things about this country (I'll demonstrate)

Damn America! You should all be killed! I hate you!

Can't say that in some places. (for those who don't know, this was just an example, and I don't really feel that way)
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:10 AM
 
6,550 posts, read 12,606,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
95% of Muslims in this country are peace loving, God fearing, good honest people.

I don't think we should go singling them out, to try and avoid contact with a few radicals.

The odds of you being struck by lightning are greater than those of you being killed by a terrorist attack.

One of the great things about this country (I'll demonstrate)

Damn America! You should all be killed! I hate you!

Can't say that in some places. (for those who don't know, this was just an example, and I don't really feel that way)
Yeah geez.... I didn't think I pissed you off that much...

For the most part I agree with your assessment, but wonder with the amount of money spent on unnecessary screening just to be PC if maybe there'd be a better way to do this I guess.....

I mean why strip-search an 85 year old Grandma just to prove a point that you AREN'T profiling?
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