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Old 11-19-2009, 04:53 PM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,618,946 times
Reputation: 1251

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TM - your positions are all emotion-based as determined by the events that have transpired in your life. I have read enough of your posts to know you have a good heart and good intentions. That is irrelevant in the political decision making process. The goal is to effectively allocate scarce resources in a fashion that best serves the majority of the citizens in a manner consistent with the rights and responsibilities mandated in the Constitution.

We are a capitalistic country. Some people will make more than others. It is not unfair.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,725 posts, read 2,997,324 times
Reputation: 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
I want to hear what Cap and Trade is. I don't care to here whether you are for it or against it or any partisan crap. I just want to hear what it is so that I can understand it and form my opinion on it.

I ask because I hear that the CC companies are using Cap and Trade as an excuse to keep raising interest rates.. it seems to be the go to excuse for a lot of things these days and I'm confused as to what it is exactly.

So please enlighten me.
This is how I understand it:

Government sets a cap designating that carbon dioxide emitters cannot go beyond or else be penalized.
First to get things started, government auctions off (sometimes gives away) allowances that let emitters legally go over the cap. The less efficient emitters exceed the cap and will use the allowances.
The more efficient emitters come under the cap can earn credits which they can sell with there allowances off to the less efficient emitters. It's a system that benefits and rewards the most efficient; like a free market system.
Over time the government tightens the cap. Understand that the government doesn't tell emitters how to become more efficient, just that they must become more efficient. The how is left up to them.

The "cap and trade" concept replaces the "regulate and give a tax incentive" concept.

Now, the Waxman bill or the Cap and Trade bill was a badly written bill. Most allowances were given away, not auctioned which would have been most beneficial to the public. Also, the bill told emitters how to become efficient; for example, by mandating a certain percentage of energy production be dedicated to renewable energy sources.

I don't mind seeing this bill defeated.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:06 AM
 
37,096 posts, read 38,678,393 times
Reputation: 14857
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofra View Post
This is how I understand it:

Government sets a cap designating that carbon dioxide emitters cannot go beyond or else be penalized.
First to get things started, government auctions off (sometimes gives away) allowances that let emitters legally go over the cap. The less efficient emitters exceed the cap and will use the allowances.
You have a cap for which their will be X amount credits, with the current bill some of the credits will be allocated and some will be auctioned off. If the emitter goes over the amount of credits they have they will either A)need purchase unused credits or B)pay a huge penalty.. or possibly C)just not do business.


Quote:
Most allowances were given away, not auctioned which would have been most beneficial to the public. Also, the bill told emitters how to become efficient; for example, by mandating a certain percentage of energy production be dedicated to renewable energy sources.
Why would you consider that beneficial to the public? All you're doing is generating more revenue for the government at the taxpayers expense. Any expense the emitter pays for the credit will be directly reflected in what the consumer pays for that product.

I understand your point but whether it's a full auction or they give them all away it's a bad deal.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:33 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,110,939 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
You have to accept something he says as truth so I pick that part.
Yeah, I already knew that, roy. You're such a man of convenience! Do you work in a 7-11?
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Northern Wi
1,530 posts, read 1,304,516 times
Reputation: 420
Well were paying $5.00 a Gallon for gas lets add this bill in for the fun of it.
GovTrack H.R tax road use

US, UK Move Toward Per-Mile Driving Tax

Feds to Convince DC Area Taxpayers to Embrace $4

Which this bill is an off shoot of the cap and trade bill,I"m sure there's plenty more out there.

Really when this happens---What do you think will happen to America as we know it.
Gee, I can't afford to drive to work today but I need to buy food for my family----NOW WHAT? Call the government?? NOPE cause they put you and your family in that position.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:44 AM
 
37,096 posts, read 38,678,393 times
Reputation: 14857
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofra View Post
for example, by mandating a certain percentage of energy production be dedicated to renewable energy sources.
FYI that's in the bill as well, there's lot more to this bill than just cap and trade. I think it's a 20% mandate for renewables in 10 years but don't quote me on that. It only applies to wind, solar and bio fuels as of right now. If you live in an area where the power is mostly from Hydro or Nuclear you're in the same boat as those that get their electric predominantly from coal. If the power company does not meet the mandates they will face fines and penalties which of course will filter down to their customers.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:51 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,110,939 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
If the power company does not meet the mandates they will face fines and penalties which of course will filter down to their customers.
Power companies must apply for rate increases, here in Nevada, anyway. They can't raise rates indescriminately, and there's no guarantee increases will be approved. If a power company faces fines, I doubt the Nevada energy commission would grant a rate increase.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:10 AM
 
37,096 posts, read 38,678,393 times
Reputation: 14857
Rates are controlled here too but it's pretty much a rubber stamp for any rate increase as they base it on costs. If the power company is going to go into bankruptcy what choice would they have other than take it over?
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:13 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,110,939 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Rates are controlled here too but it's pretty much a rubber stamp for any rate increase as they base it on costs. If the power company is going to go into bankruptcy what choice would they have other than take it over?
Not here. NVEnergy has requests denied all the time, and these are based on legitimate costs. I seriously doubt the state would allow the company to pass fines down to the consumer. Nevadans would riot in the streets.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:15 AM
 
1,742 posts, read 2,632,765 times
Reputation: 1923
Another measure to make the entire infrastructure fail so he these idiots can make their utopian fascist vision come to fruition. RP
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