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Old 11-19-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,129,881 times
Reputation: 908

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I want to hear what Cap and Trade is. I don't care to here whether you are for it or against it or any partisan crap. I just want to hear what it is so that I can understand it and form my opinion on it.

I ask because I hear that the CC companies are using Cap and Trade as an excuse to keep raising interest rates.. it seems to be the go to excuse for a lot of things these days and I'm confused as to what it is exactly.

So please enlighten me.

Last edited by TristansMommy; 11-19-2009 at 01:58 PM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Northern Wi
1,530 posts, read 1,301,827 times
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Here's some info on this and the Bills I found so far about this.
4 Versions of Cap and Trade Bill

Cap and Trade US EPA

Weather Channel Founder Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’ NewsBusters


Gateway Pundit

Greenland Ice Find Debunks Al Gore’s Global Warming Theories NewsBusters


Polar bear expert barred by global warmists - Telegraph

Gore Urges Scientist to Change Science to Suit His Alarmist Agenda


YouTube - HR2454 Rep Louie Gohmert Texas, Cap and Trade, Americans will be liv

This should help you understand the issue. There is alot more articles out there.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:11 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,093,181 times
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^^^



I like your use of blue and red font colors.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,129,881 times
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Okay.. I haven't read the bills yet, but basically it's what I thought it was.. regulations on emissions, new standards etc. All to protect the environment.

So how, exactly , does this destory the economic fabric of the nation..as doomsayers seem to say.. and apply the cap and trade thing as an excuse for ..well just about everything like raising cc rates.?

I didn't ask for links "debunking" global warming etc. That is not what I"m tryign to get at .. I can see clearly where your slant lies.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,803,273 times
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I'd also like to hear what a Socialist or Communist is. I hear it used as an insult a lot on here but strangely no one has ever taken time to explain themselves...
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:24 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,093,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Okay.. I haven't read the bills yet, but basically it's what I thought it was.. regulations on emissions, new standards etc. All to protect the environment.
It's more than an environmental bill. It also incentivizes the transition to renewable energy souces and away from dependence on foreign oil.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,129,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
It's more than an environmental bill. It also incentivizes the transition to renewable energy souces and away from dependence on foreign oil.

All good things!
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:35 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,093,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
All good things!
Agree completely.

Here's a recent CBO report you might find worthwhile to read: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc..._Testimony.pdf
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,190,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
All good things!
I take it that you didn't hear Obama say that the price of electricity would have to skyrocket with cap and trade.

I will tell you what I think it is all about. It certainly does have to do with climate change, as they are calling it these days, in that if you read up on what is expected at Copenhagen you will get a better idea about what Cap and Trade is all about. Obama had been expected to sign that new treaty to put the clamps on the US and the European nations who are supposed to be the top polluters. Somehow these people have failed to see that over a year ago China became the biggest polluters and we slipped to second place. China and India along with Brazil will not be forced to cut their emissions but we will and we have already nearly reached what Kyoto called for.

Now if you don't use electricity you may like Cap and Trade. Algore loves it in that he has started so many "green companies" and can sell all their "good little kids" trade certificates to other heavy polluters. The whole thing is supposed to stop dependence on foreign oil but we don't have the necessary "green" facilities to allow much of a cutback. I say this because out here in the central US where we are building wind power facilities very rapidly we find that the electric grid just won't handle all the expanded power facilities. One wind tower costs over $1 million and I don't think Algore is building any of them. He just manufactures the parts for them.

We talk about oil all the time but it is coal that generates most of our electricity and that burns pretty dirty even when cleaned up. Obama did say in his campaign that he would be destroying those coal facilities with taxes, like in cap and trade. Since he plans to do away with coal we must have another fuel to run those generators and oil and natural gas are next in line for that.

Anyone who can't see that he is going to pay through the nose if we get Cap and Trade deserves to get socked right in the wallet. Cap and Trade sounds so good unless you look at what they really want and then it won't look so good but I don't think you want to hear any more Republican about it so I quit.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:03 PM
 
37,072 posts, read 38,527,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Okay.. I haven't read the bills yet, but basically it's what I thought it was.. regulations on emissions, new standards etc. All to protect the environment.
Cap and Trade in the current bill regulates CO2 which other than the Global Warming debate is harmless. It's a natural gas that is essential for life on this planet.

Quote:
So how, exactly , does this destory the economic fabric of the nation..as doomsayers seem to say.. and apply the cap and trade thing as an excuse for ..well just about everything like raising cc rates.?
Cheap energy is one of the things that has made this country what it is today and is factored into everything you purchase. If you want to thrive economically the cost of that energy plays a major role.

For example lets take the cement industry, this is a product that forms the very basic building blocks of this society. It's used everywhere including foundations for houses, sidewalks, roads, buildings, airports etc. Not only will the cement industries costs rise and in turn be passed onto the consumer because they will paying more for energy but they will also be taking it from the other end as they are next largest emitter of CO2 after power plants. Cap and trade will increase the cost of everything you purchase.

One argument is that this worked for other emissions but it's apples and oranges. Firstly the volume of the other emissions is not that great whereas the CO2 generated is enormous quantities. With the other emissions there was lots of ways to reduce them, you can;t do that with CO2. For example one way they achieved sulfur reductions was simply by switching from high sulfur coal to a lower sulfur coal. Ironically this actually increases CO2 as you need to burn more of it as it has a lower BTU content.


----------------------

Just to add there is many other problems with this bill other than the Cap and Trade section, for example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9FX1fojAJM
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