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Old 11-25-2009, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,028,059 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
For the deniers, this is how science should work;



True, or False?
This is all ok unless he draws a hockey stick to show what temperatures have been doing.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:52 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,073,128 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Yeah, I saw that on Cavuto yesterday. It was absolutely hilarious! These people are such idiots!

How did we ever get to this state, when idiots are virtually "running the country"? They are destroying America. And they think it's wonderful!

I think we are headed for another civil war. The "liberals" are the enemys of freedom.
social promotion and politically correct ideology? *chuckle*

I have no idea, but to be serious, I think "stupid" is just the result of devious trying to explain away itself.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:53 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,073,128 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♠atizar♠ View Post
This is "one group" of sicentists, as the article says. And I'll be generous and assume for the moment that they are guilty. So what? One group? "your scientists"? WTF?

Can you imagine if someone claimed creationism was bunk because of one denomination's unseemly behavior with regard to the issue? So when this happens, should everyone all stop believing in creationism? Would it be fair to then turn on other believers and accuse them thusly with this "your scientists" bunkum?

This is nothing more than a not-so-clever excuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It is a smear campaign, because people are smearing one group's supposed behavior onto the entire scientific body.
A group who is at the core to the research in the field. Their work is the foundation to which a lot of the other work out there builds on.

Start with a false premise and you end with a false conclusion. This is why this is really serious.

edit:

Let me also add that this was one of the concerns about the field. That it was too closely related and tied centralizing too much control into certain establishments which had the influence and the ability to effect influence across what may appear to be wide ranges. Rather it was the organization of such that allowed this to happen. Many complaints about the CRU and the predominate AGW position was that it didn't allow for 3rd party evaluation and replication and this affected the review process as well. I believe it is this very fact that allowed them to gain so much control over the opinion of the hypothesis and allowed them to control those who disagreed.

Last edited by Nomander; 11-25-2009 at 06:05 PM..
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:04 PM
 
37,071 posts, read 38,273,370 times
Reputation: 14835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♠atizar♠ View Post
Can you imagine if someone claimed creationism was bunk because of one denomination's unseemly behavior with regard to the issue? So when this happens, should everyone all stop believing in creationism? Would it be fair to then turn on other believers and accuse them thusly with this "your scientists" bunkum?
The research these people have done forms the core of all AGW research as the Bible would form the core of all Christianity.

If the Bible turned out to be a fraud then what?
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:10 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,419,788 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♠atizar♠ View Post
This is "one group" of sicentists, as the article says. And I'll be generous and assume for the moment that they are guilty. So what? One group? "your scientists"? WTF? It is a smear campaign, because people are smearing one group's supposed behavior onto the entire scientific body.
You obviosuly are not clued into the role of CRU, Jones and Mann. They effectively hold a monopoly on climate data and are the vanguard of the Global Warming Debate. There are relativley no other voices outside this cabal. They are it. There are no other major denominations.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:11 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,073,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The research these people have done forms the core of all AGW research as the Bible would form the core of all Christianity.

If the Bible turned out to be a fraud then what?
Exactly, would it not then invalidate lets say for instance Mormonism? Even though they have an addition to which deviates from the core bible (sorry, not trying to argue religion, it is just a good example). The point being, they build on each other and if the core is invalid, then all later evaluations based on the core also become invalid even though they may not base their entire position on that core.

Every single research out there that used the suspect data as support is now invalid until it accounts for the discrepancies of the manipulated data.

Any conclusions that base this fraudulent information as its support needs to be reevaluated. The problem is, a lot of research out there used this research as a starting point and then built from there so the result is an entire project of tainted results (some even only stand up because of the correlations they find with the existing research). Again, Ive said it before and I will say it again. I honestly do not think people realize how serious this is.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:15 PM
 
37,071 posts, read 38,273,370 times
Reputation: 14835
Another Scandal breaking in New Zealand:

Quote:
TBR.cc: BREAKING: NZ’s NIWA accused of CRU-style temperature faking

The New Zealand Government's chief climate advisory unit NIWA is under fire for allegedly massaging raw climate data to show a global warming trend that wasn't there.

The scandal breaks as fears grow worldwide that corruption of climate science is not confined to just Britain's CRU climate research centre.

In New Zealand's case, the figures published on NIWA's [the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric research] website suggest a strong warming trend in New Zealand over the past century:



But analysis of the raw climate data from the same temperature stations has just turned up a very different result:


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Old 11-25-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 38,474,749 times
Reputation: 7106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Its ok, he wants the code, by all means.

Knock yourself out Mr. Programmer of 20 years!

edit: oh and if you want more specific ones, by all means just ask.
Or...he could take a novel approach and actually read the files himself...they are all over the web and the zip file is still available.

But we all know he doesn't want to do that.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 38,474,749 times
Reputation: 7106
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Another Scandal breaking in New Zealand:
Well, looky here. Look where the man who created those charts used to reside;

Quote:
Dr Jim Salinger (who no longer works for NIWA) started this graph in the 1980s when he was at CRU (Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, UK) and it has been updated with the most recent data. It’s published on NIWA’s website at:
Oh my. The house of cards is crumbling.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:24 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,073,128 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Or...he could take a novel approach and actually read the files himself...they are all over the web and the zip file is still available.

But we all know he doesn't want to do that.
Yeah, I figured as much with his appeal to authority claim followed by an immediate display of ignorance only to end with an evasive dismissal.

Its ok, the facts don't need a consensus, they exist of their own merit.
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