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Most Blacks that I know are not strictly left or right leaning. Majority of the time it is a combination of both, at least that is the way I am.
And very possible it may be that way in your social circle, but if you look at shear numbers of registered black Democrats vs. registered black Republicans, the numbers are astronomically larger for Democrats.
No. poor black thug culture is not destroying the black "race."
I will agree with you there, and the points the OP was talking about in his post, happen in lower income communities no matter the race. People don't want to invest in high end business in an area that is not going to have the money to spend there, It would be financial suicide.
I live in an area roughly 50% black. I find that I see blacks doing things all the time that both disappoint and anger me. I am not going to speak in absolutes, because of course not everyone is going to fit into one category, but overwhelmingly:
1) Black men do not raise their children, they generally get the woman pregnant and abandon all interest in her. Black women do not properly take the black man to task for this problem. The 'strong black woman' mentality is a myth. If such a thing existed, they would not be stepped on by black men to the degree they are.
-Black women need to wake up, smell the coffee, and stop putting out, to be blunt. They need to have children when they PLAN for children, and not be forced into a life of nothing by giving into desire. Education at a young age is key here, about sex, pregnancy, the end result of raising kids by themselves, stds, etc. I believe Oprah stated 80% of black mothers are unwed. STD rates among black women vs. their white counterparts are also through the roof. Feel free to google for yourself, I'm not going to link things that people will then say are biased.
2) Black men especially have no interest in attempting to better themselves. You can be dirt poor and wear properly fitting clothes, speak correctly, and carry yourself in a dignified manner while you treat others with respect.
-Education, pushing the black man to excel at something other than sports would be my solution. Blacks need to be pushed towards science, math, etc and away from the ideal of 'being a pro player' which is unrealistic in 99.9% of cases. Welfare reduction is critical. Something for nothing is ruining black America's work ethic.
3) Black kids are far more likely to be distracted in educational settings.
-I don't pretend to understand why, perhaps there's a base biological difference. In short black kids need a more stict learning environment with minimal distractions. I don't feel this is 'punishment for being black' as some people would suggest. It's tailoring academics to encourage excellence. This would likely only be necessary through grade school. It might take 20 years to work out a good cut off point for such education however. I don't know what the magic number is. Let's not be coy, asian kids are generally going to excel by themselves, white students need more discipline, and blacks need even more.
4) To a lesser degree I've seen both black men and women out walking with a *very* young child or toddler. They will let this child stray 10 or 15 feet behind them while walking alongside a busy road. I've yet to see a white parent do this.
-The 'cool factor' of black culture really needs an adjustment. I see 40 year old men with 20 inch rims on their cars, guys nearly that age wearing pants 3 sizes too large, or turned backwards, or with one leg pulled up. Cool stops in school. Grow up, black people. This is almost entirely the black male, as by this time the black woman is stuck with multiple children and doesn't have time to 'be cool'. The walking away from your toddler thing fits squarely in this category as black men and women seem to think it's uncool to care for their kids properly in view of the public.
5) Blacks who follow the better rules of society: hold jobs, educate themselves, speak properly, dress appropriately are often looked down on by much of black society as 'acting white'. It is frustrating to see people who simply act RIGHT being disparaged by their own cultural groups in such a way. Look at the young black boy in Detroit(?) who was recently beaten to death for 'acting white' and not joining gangs etc. He was trying to better himself and paid for it with his life.
-Honestly I don't know what to do here. This is a massive problem that didn't start overnight. Excellence, realistic goals, encouragement, education, all need to be enhanced in black men and women from a very young age. This spans into the other problem categories however, and really would only be properly addressed with a more complete corrective action by the entire black community.
6) Black people commit a truly inordinate amount of crime. That's simple fact. Anyone here can find FBI yearly crime reports (they come in pdf format) and read through them and read assessments of them on a wide range of internet sites. I urge you to do so, don't flame me for citing this information, it is what our own government pulls together on a yearly basis for all types of crime. It is very revealing. There are a huge range of liberal apologies for this, which I'll address.
Excuses:
-'Blacks are poor'. My grandparents and parents were dirt poor. There were many days my parents went to bed hungry. I don't want to hear about being poor. You escape being poor with hard work.
-'Blacks are under-educated'. Really? I attended the same public schools, but I studied and applied myself.
-'Blacks don't have what whites have'. I didn't have a computer growing up, I went to the library and looked everything up. This excuse fits in neatly with 'poor'. Libraries now have internet access. I would have killed for such a thing as a kid. Get your work done kids.
-'Blacks are oppressed'. When are black people going to stop being the victims? Ever? Sorry to let everyone know, but slavery has existed in many forms throughout all of history. Slavery still exists in the world. Indentured Servitude was just slavery with a pretty name, but white people got over it.
There are a multitude of liberal excuses which exist in society that lay blame everywhere but on blacks themselves. When black men and women step up and make changes to their own culture they can expect to reap the rewards. It won't happen overnight. The victim mentality is really what's keeping black people down.
There are more problems than these, including stupid things like reparations, reverse racism, etc. but I'll leave those for another day. The points above are what immediately come to mind.
I bet your biggest opposition comes from white people? Am I right?
lol. At least twice per month you can expect a new discussion from white people discussing the problems in the black community and how they feel it needs to be fixed.
lol. At least twice per month you can expect a new discussion from white people discussing the problems in the black community and how they feel it needs to be fixed.
Monthly!?! Try weekly, hell some weeks it's hourly.
I live in an area roughly 50% black. I find that I see blacks doing things all the time that both disappoint and anger me. I am not going to speak in absolutes, because of course not everyone is going to fit into one category, but overwhelmingly:
1) Black men do not raise their children, they generally get the woman pregnant and abandon all interest in her. Black women do not properly take the black man to task for this problem. The 'strong black woman' mentality is a myth. If such a thing existed, they would not be stepped on by black men to the degree they are.
There are many white women that are getting pregnant young with the father of the child wanting nothing to do with the mother or the baby also. Just watch a week of Maury and you can see this. Divorce rates across all races is 50%, therefore there are many of every race that don't have the father in the home. Just because the father isn't in the home, doesn't mean that they are not a part of the childs life.
-Black women need to wake up, smell the coffee, and stop putting out, to be blunt. They need to have children when they PLAN for children, and not be forced into a life of nothing by giving into desire. Education at a young age is key here, about sex, pregnancy, the end result of raising kids by themselves, stds, etc. I believe Oprah stated 80% of black mothers are unwed. STD rates among black women vs. their white counterparts are also through the roof. Feel free to google for yourself, I'm not going to link things that people will then say are biased.
2) Black men especially have no interest in attempting to better themselves. You can be dirt poor and wear properly fitting clothes, speak correctly, and carry yourself in a dignified manner while you treat others with respect.
You are basing someone being better solely off of what you consider to be socially better. But on the same hand, what you consider to be better dressed or better articulation and a dignified manner may not be the same in another part of the country. What you are saying is that hey, I am going to judge you, because you don't look or talk the way I do. Why should anyone have to conform to your idealogy of standards?
-Education, pushing the black man to excel at something other than sports would be my solution. Blacks need to be pushed towards science, math, etc and away from the ideal of 'being a pro player' which is unrealistic in 99.9% of cases. Welfare reduction is critical. Something for nothing is ruining black America's work ethic.
3) Black kids are far more likely to be distracted in educational settings.
-I don't pretend to understand why, perhaps there's a base biological difference. In short black kids need a more stict learning environment with minimal distractions. I don't feel this is 'punishment for being black' as some people would suggest. It's tailoring academics to encourage excellence. This would likely only be necessary through grade school. It might take 20 years to work out a good cut off point for such education however. I don't know what the magic number is. Let's not be coy, asian kids are generally going to excel by themselves, white students need more discipline, and blacks need even more.
No real response to this, you are just making ignorant statements on this one.
4) To a lesser degree I've seen both black men and women out walking with a *very* young child or toddler. They will let this child stray 10 or 15 feet behind them while walking alongside a busy road. I've yet to see a white parent do this.
-The 'cool factor' of black culture really needs an adjustment. I see 40 year old men with 20 inch rims on their cars, guys nearly that age wearing pants 3 sizes too large, or turned backwards, or with one leg pulled up. Cool stops in school. Grow up, black people. This is almost entirely the black male, as by this time the black woman is stuck with multiple children and doesn't have time to 'be cool'. The walking away from your toddler thing fits squarely in this category as black men and women seem to think it's uncool to care for their kids properly in view of the public.
You can also find 40 old white men with monster truck tires on the trucks, and after market spoilers put on their cameros etc... you can find older white guys that are wearing leather biker jackets, jeans way way too tight etc... You can also find white people that let their kids play outside with no supervision, or let their kids run in the parking lot etc... Everything that you are saying here you can find the same basis in white people.
5) Blacks who follow the better rules of society: hold jobs, educate themselves, speak properly, dress appropriately are often looked down on by much of black society as 'acting white'. It is frustrating to see people who simply act RIGHT being disparaged by their own cultural groups in such a way. Look at the young black boy in Detroit(?) who was recently beaten to death for 'acting white' and not joining gangs etc. He was trying to better himself and paid for it with his life.
I think you are trying to talk about the Honor Roll teenager that was beaten to death in Chicago, not Detroit? If that is the case, honestly you can't speak of it, because you have no idea of any of the facts of what happened. So you will make yourself look more like a fool.
-Honestly I don't know what to do here. This is a massive problem that didn't start overnight. Excellence, realistic goals, encouragement, education, all need to be enhanced in black men and women from a very young age. This spans into the other problem categories however, and really would only be properly addressed with a more complete corrective action by the entire black community.
6) Black people commit a truly inordinate amount of crime. That's simple fact. Anyone here can find FBI yearly crime reports (they come in pdf format) and read through them and read assessments of them on a wide range of internet sites. I urge you to do so, don't flame me for citing this information, it is what our own government pulls together on a yearly basis for all types of crime. It is very revealing. There are a huge range of liberal apologies for this, which I'll address.
Excuses:
-'Blacks are poor'. My grandparents and parents were dirt poor. There were many days my parents went to bed hungry. I don't want to hear about being poor. You escape being poor with hard work.
-'Blacks are under-educated'. Really? I attended the same public schools, but I studied and applied myself.
-'Blacks don't have what whites have'. I didn't have a computer growing up, I went to the library and looked everything up. This excuse fits in neatly with 'poor'. Libraries now have internet access. I would have killed for such a thing as a kid. Get your work done kids.
-'Blacks are oppressed'. When are black people going to stop being the victims? Ever? Sorry to let everyone know, but slavery has existed in many forms throughout all of history. Slavery still exists in the world. Indentured Servitude was just slavery with a pretty name, but white people got over it.
There are a multitude of liberal excuses which exist in society that lay blame everywhere but on blacks themselves. When black men and women step up and make changes to their own culture they can expect to reap the rewards. It won't happen overnight. The victim mentality is really what's keeping black people down.
There are more problems than these, including stupid things like reparations, reverse racism, etc. but I'll leave those for another day. The points above are what immediately come to mind.
Now I will give you the point that liberals make up too many excuses, but, I am a believer that the Democratic party is one of the biggest downfalls for minorities.
Now I will give you the point that liberals make up too many excuses, but, I am a believer that the Democratic party is one of the biggest downfalls for minorities.
You cite a lot of things in which you call me a supposed fool, but then you apparently lack the capacity to tell me how or why I'm wrong.
Let me attack your rather pathetic speaking points:
quote: There are many white women that are getting pregnant young with the father of the child wanting nothing to do with the mother or the baby also. Just watch a week of Maury and you can see this. Divorce rates across all races is 50%, therefore there are many of every race that don't have the father in the home. Just because the father isn't in the home, doesn't mean that they are not a part of the childs life.
I don't know what reality you come from, but the fatherless black child is rather well known in the reality I live in. These children are not from broken homes, they simply never have a father to start with, their mother is unwed. The process of abandonment begins before the child is born. If your rebuttal is a selection of white trash from 'Maury' I suggest you turn off the tv, pay attention to the real world and do some research.
quote: You are basing someone being better solely off of what you consider to be socially better. But on the same hand, what you consider to be better dressed or better articulation and a dignified manner may not be the same in another part of the country. What you are saying is that hey, I am going to judge you, because you don't look or talk the way I do. Why should anyone have to conform to your idealogy of standards?
My father was in the Air Force, I've lived in a variety of places across this country and I'm sorry to tell you that you're perpetrating a fantasy to simply disagree with me. The standards of socially acceptable forms of dress, behavior and speech do not vary across this country as they might across Europe, which has a wide array of cultural norms. Yes, people should conform to standards in which their clothes fit, they speak appropriately and respect others. This is not in question, and deviation from such basic acceptable standards is why our country is heading down the toilet. Stop making excuses for such behavior.
quote: (regarding black children being more likely to be distracted in class) No real response to this, you are just making ignorant statements on this one.
Perhaps you can educate me as to how I'm wrong? I've observed this myself a multitude of times. Perhaps you can more fully explain why black children continue to score below their white counterparts in any age group across the country? The truth is that black children need a firmer hand with steady direction to ensure they get the most out of educational experiences.
quote: You can also find 40 old white men with monster truck tires on the trucks, and after market spoilers put on their cameros etc... you can find older white guys that are wearing leather biker jackets, jeans way way too tight etc... You can also find white people that let their kids play outside with no supervision, or let their kids run in the parking lot etc... Everything that you are saying here you can find the same basis in white people.
Sure you can, but those men generally are fathers to their children, at least in the early stages of life, even if they eventually divorce. You can find fools in any group, I didn't state otherwise. The problem is that black men tend of be foolish at the complete expense of any redeeming family life or steady job.
quote: I think you are trying to talk about the Honor Roll teenager that was beaten to death in Chicago, not Detroit? If that is the case, honestly you can't speak of it, because you have no idea of any of the facts of what happened. So you will make yourself look more like a fool.
Chicago and Detroit are both **** poor hell holes, forgive me for forgetting which one it was. After watching multiple interviews with the student's grandfather describing the matter I'm just as versed as anyone else outside his immediate family to interpret the situation as I did. Again: You call me a 'fool' yet offer no other facts about the case or information of value. I've seen the interviews, I've seen the video of the poor guy getting beaten to death. It was a horrible scene.
Just a notation here as well: your little insult did not address my complaint that blacks refer to those among themselves who try to study and achieve as "acting white", instead of "acting right".
Location: The Land Mass Between NOLA and Mobile, AL
1,796 posts, read 1,660,872 times
Reputation: 1411
[quote=wethrowpie;11749115]You cite a lot of things in which you call me a supposed fool, but then you apparently lack the capacity to tell me how or why I'm wrong.
Let me attack your rather pathetic speaking points:
quote:
Quote:
There are many white women that are getting pregnant young with the father of the child wanting nothing to do with the mother or the baby also. Just watch a week of Maury and you can see this. Divorce rates across all races is 50%, therefore there are many of every race that don't have the father in the home. Just because the father isn't in the home, doesn't mean that they are not a part of the childs life.
I don't know what reality you come from, but the fatherless black child is rather well known in the reality I live in. These children are not from broken homes, they simply never have a father to start with, their mother is unwed. The process of abandonment begins before the child is born. If your rebuttal is a selection of white trash from 'Maury' I suggest you turn off the tv, pay attention to the real world and do some research.
What's in bold is what wethrowpie is responding to.
In the reality that I live in, the exact same problems that are present among urban black people who have problems with substance abuse are the same ones among rural white people who have problems with meth. This is well documented. Dropping out of school, teen pregnancy, crime to in support of habit are all part of the rural meth problem. Coincidentally, the parts of the country with the highest white teen pregnancy rates and drop out rates are also in the South. I'm not saying that that is the South's fault, but rather there is something there that is correlated with those things. I personally think it is a lack of sex education. Others agree.
Quote:
quote: You are basing someone being better solely off of what you consider to be socially better. But on the same hand, what you consider to be better dressed or better articulation and a dignified manner may not be the same in another part of the country. What you are saying is that hey, I am going to judge you, because you don't look or talk the way I do. Why should anyone have to conform to your idealogy of standards?
My father was in the Air Force, I've lived in a variety of places across this country and I'm sorry to tell you that you're perpetrating a fantasy to simply disagree with me. The standards of socially acceptable forms of dress, behavior and speech do not vary across this country as they might across Europe, which has a wide array of cultural norms. Yes, people should conform to standards in which their clothes fit, they speak appropriately and respect others. This is not in question, and deviation from such basic acceptable standards is why our country is heading down the toilet. Stop making excuses for such behavior.
Look, I've lived in four areas of the country, and people dress significantly different there. In Manhattan, people do not dress the same way they do in, say, Mobile AL. I have seen this with my own eyes.
Quote:
quote: (regarding black children being more likely to be distracted in class) No real response to this, you are just making ignorant statements on this one.
Perhaps you can educate me as to how I'm wrong? I've observed this myself a multitude of times. Perhaps you can more fully explain why black children continue to score below their white counterparts in any age group across the country? The truth is that black children need a firmer hand with steady direction to ensure they get the most out of educational experiences.
Are you a teacher? What makes up this data set you keep referring to? I am a teacher, and some of my best students have been my black students. Some have been slackers. Same as my brown, tan, and beige students.
Quote:
quote: You can also find 40 old white men with monster truck tires on the trucks, and after market spoilers put on their cameros etc... you can find older white guys that are wearing leather biker jackets, jeans way way too tight etc... You can also find white people that let their kids play outside with no supervision, or let their kids run in the parking lot etc... Everything that you are saying here you can find the same basis in white people.
Sure you can, but those men generally are fathers to their children, at least in the early stages of life, even if they eventually divorce. You can find fools in any group, I didn't state otherwise. The problem is that black men tend of be foolish at the complete expense of any redeeming family life or steady job.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the part of the country where people tend to deck out their cars in the manner that the OP describes, divorce rates are very high, as are teen pregnancy rates, low levels of education, and so on. In fact, the states with the highest rates of these things also happen somehow to be in the Bible Belt.
Quote:
quote: I think you are trying to talk about the Honor Roll teenager that was beaten to death in Chicago, not Detroit? If that is the case, honestly you can't speak of it, because you have no idea of any of the facts of what happened. So you will make yourself look more like a fool.
Chicago and Detroit are both **** poor hell holes, forgive me for forgetting which one it was. After watching multiple interviews with the student's grandfather describing the matter I'm just as versed as anyone else outside his immediate family to interpret the situation as I did. Again: You call me a 'fool' yet offer no other facts about the case or information of value. I've seen the interviews, I've seen the video of the poor guy getting beaten to death. It was a horrible scene.
Just a notation here as well: your little insult did not address my complaint that blacks refer to those among themselves who try to study and achieve as "acting white", instead of "acting right".
Urban Detroit is kinda empty, and I wouldn't call Chicago what you did. I'd call it the cultural jewel of the Midwest. Cities like Minneapolis and Chicago fertilize the economies of MN, WI, and IL. I used to live on the I-90/I-94 corrider and had to deal with the truck traffic bringing things back and forth between places. I guess there are some people with money in Chicago who buy stuff. If you walk down Michigan Ave., you will see stores (think Prada, Dolce & Gabana, Gucci) with very expensive things in them. I love Chicago's museums, colleges and universities, and I'll admit it, shopping. Also I love the variety of ethnic eateries of all sorts, including eastern European ones. Man, those Polish pickles are good, and don't get me started on the fresh, authentic Polish sausages.
About the "acting white" thing: I'm pretty sure black people know about this and talk about it. In fact, several of them have written books about such things. They don't tend to agree on everything. But why should they? You and I are both white, and I bet we would have a hard time coming up with something that is both consequential and controversial that we agree about. I just wanted to let you know that your points are really not universally shared among white people. My thoughts about the issues you raise are pretty much the opposite of yours.
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