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If you dont want to be "insulted", dont do it yourself. Its a two way street...if you want to be talked to with respect, give it first.
To whom am I not giving respect? The Ignorant fools of this country? I don't see why I should respect someone for being ignorant?
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You dont know anything about Enlisted then other than what you were taught in OTS or whatever the Navy calls it. I always laugh at these Officers that come out of OTS that think the Enlisted are their personal pawns. Officers are pretty much the pencil pushers that do the "management" functions of the unit. The Enlisted pull the real work...and the NCO's do the real leading. To deny that is just foolish.
You would NEVER make it to the higher ranks with your attitude. Without "management" you enlisted boys would simply hang out in the barracks looking at porn or going into town to get your car modified (go to Oceanside, it's nothing but car tuners), you wouldn't have a clue what to do. Who flies the jets in the Air Force? It's not the enlisted guys! What would the air force be without the pilots?
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There is no possible way that you could ever learn 10 years of life experience in one semester at school...abroad or otherwise. How about oh, actually living abroad? Travelling and living among the locals? And like I said, most enlisted...at least in the AF...have a bachelors by the time they are an E-5.
Well, if they have a Bachelors degree then they are no longer uneducated boys who are simply "grunts" or "seamen". Again, that proves my point, that to become a more complete person, they need their degree. Studying abroad IS living abroad. Duh. Spending one semester abroad is far more immersive than being on the base in Stuttgart surrounded by Americans.
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Put it this way...you studied German history and culture right? Whats better? Sitting in some classroom or getting out there and seeing and smelling that stuff yourself? It seems pretty obvious to me.
Hence why I said "one semester ABROAD" for the immersion into the culture. But to UNDERSTAND all that you are seeing, an education helps. I can go to Dresden and enjoy it for what it is now, but my knowledge of its history made the visit that much more powerful. Ditto for Dubrovnik, Croatia.
What about learning calculus, theoretical astro-physics, architecture, engineering, etc. That can only be done in a classroom/teaching situation.
If you dont want to be "insulted", dont do it yourself. Its a two way street...if you want to be talked to with respect, give it first.
You dont know anything about Enlisted then other than what you were taught in OTS or whatever the Navy calls it. I always laugh at these Officers that come out of OTS that think the Enlisted are their personal pawns. Officers are pretty much the pencil pushers that do the "management" functions of the unit. The Enlisted pull the real work...and the NCO's do the real leading. To deny that is just foolish.
There is no possible way that you could ever learn 10 years of life experience in one semester at school...abroad or otherwise. How about oh, actually living abroad? Travelling and living among the locals? And like I said, most enlisted...at least in the AF...have a bachelors by the time they are an E-5.
Put it this way...you studied German history and culture right? Whats better? Sitting in some classroom or getting out there and seeing and smelling that stuff yourself? It seems pretty obvious to me.
Spoken like an enlisted man who maybe couldn't quite hack it? Your comments are typical of what you hear from lower grade enlisted personnel who are only aware of what is happening directly in front of them.
By the way, Navy officers don't come from OTS. They come from either the Naval Academy, ROTC, or Naval OCS. .
What the officers provide is leadership. They're the ones who make the decisions. They're the ones who don't rely on other people telling them what to do. And they're the ones who are responsible when things go wrong.
Your comments denigrating education are just silly, but actually quite typical for people on the Right, who simply have no respect for education or intelligence. As are your comments denigrating officers. I think it's fairly apparent why you are no longer in the service.
Seriously how do you white rural Southern boys think you helping yourselves out? ( I'm a white southern boy myself from a rural town)
[ Fair warning: I'm going to generalize here]
You think it's a bad thing have an advanced education. You mock scientists. You cheer on any War they tell you is needed. You try and legislate morality. You try and push your religion into public schools and court houses. You bad mouth unions that have given this country the "weekend" and "overtime pay".
You're against raising the minimum wage so a man who wants to work can earn a living for his family. You're against healthcare for those less fortunate than yourselves. You actually whine when the rich must pay more of a share in taxes.
I now live in in a wealthy neighborhood and exclusive school district in the South. Do you think it's your type that is running the show here? Hardly.
Asians and Jews and transplants from the Coasts are on the rise here. They respect teachers, they value scientists, they know how important is is to have marketable skills. They don't push their religion on others. The unionized pilots here make very sure their careers and incomes are secure for their families sake. The Asian Doctors send their kids to advanced tutoring while your spending your money on a new "wave runner" or Z71.
You're killing us................You should travel to Europe and see how white boys are supposed to act......hint: They use their brains!
Spoken like an enlisted man who couldn't quite hack it. By the way, Navy officers don't come from OTS. They come from either the Naval Academy, ROTC, or Naval OCS. .
What the officers provide is leadership. They're the ones who make the decisions. They're the ones who don't rely on other people telling them what to do.
Your comments denigrating education are just silly. As are your comments denigrating officers. I think it's fairly apparent why you are no longer in the service.
Couldnt quite hack it? When did I say I had gotten out?
Officers make management decisions. NCO's make leadership decisions. And since when do officers not take orders? Officers get the crap dumped on them by the guy ahead of them too...just like the rest of us.
I never put down education. I put down liberal professors that use the kids they educate to spread their personal opinions. I stated that life experience is just as valuable as education. I would think 1/2 the posters on this forum prove that point. Just because you are "educated" doesnt mean you have common sense.
And since you fail at simple reading comprehension as proven by your post, I am done talking to you.
To whom am I not giving respect? The Ignorant fools of this country? I don't see why I should respect someone for being ignorant?
Well I originally meant towards my post but lets just move past it. It gets foolish after awhile. Agreed?
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Originally Posted by Pug Life
You would NEVER make it to the higher ranks with your attitude. Without "management" you enlisted boys would simply hang out in the barracks looking at porn or going into town to get your car modified (go to Oceanside, it's nothing but car tuners), you wouldn't have a clue what to do. Who flies the jets in the Air Force? It's not the enlisted guys! What would the air force be without the pilots?
That may hold true for the first termers but people grow up. They become NCO's, have families and gain all the responsibility that comes with it. I'm just curious...why all the hate on enlisted? And I dont know about the Navy again...but my last Squadron had 150 personnel...1 officer. You think that officer was leading us? Please... It went SrNCO's, NCO's, Airman. The Enlisted are supposed to be the experts at the job. The Officers are the "office management." And the Air Force is moving more and more towards UAV's. Which are manned by officers and enlisted. As are every other branch...including the Navy.
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Originally Posted by Pug Life
Well, if they have a Bachelors degree then they are no longer uneducated boys who are simply "grunts" or "seamen". Again, that proves my point, that to become a more complete person, they need their degree. Studying abroad IS living abroad. Duh. Spending one semester abroad is far more immersive than being on the base in Stuttgart surrounded by Americans.
I dont think they are trying to become a more complete person. I think they are preparing for their future in a world that insists you have an overpriced piece of paper. But thats another discussion.
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Originally Posted by Pug Life
Hence why I said "one semester ABROAD" for the immersion into the culture. But to UNDERSTAND all that you are seeing, an education helps. I can go to Dresden and enjoy it for what it is now, but my knowledge of its history made the visit that much more powerful. Ditto for Dubrovnik, Croatia.
Well I can respect you learning it and then going to see it to get the full experience. Personally I take an interest in history and cultures and would know that before I went to go see those places. Therefore I would get the best experience I could as well. But most people educated or not would dump any info they learned about other places/cultures/etc as soon as they didnt need it anymore. Nature of the beast.
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Originally Posted by Pug Life
What about learning calculus, theoretical astro-physics, architecture, engineering, etc. That can only be done in a classroom/teaching situation.
Depends on the nature of it really. If I'm being forced to learn calculus when I'm pursuing a degree in journalism, then that is the "system" taking advantage of people to milk them for money. If its necessary then yeah. Either way that definately has to be done at a higher level. I agree.
Thats your opinion first of all and second of all...what attitude?
Its not like I'm saying "All professors are communist pigs!" I dont think that at all. What I am saying is:
1) The 18-21 year old demographic is very easily persuaded. They basically went from being kids in high school to kids in college. Most have no real world experience other than maybe working an after school job to afford little luxuries/loans/etc for them to draw from. So they rely on other folks experiences still. Not all...but most are proabably this way.
2) College grounds are definately breeding grounds for extremism. Again not all...but it does seem to thrive there. To deny this is not living in reality.
3) Combine the two and you get the OP. Thus my post.
Yes, it is my opinion and I stand by it. I read all your posts. On the one hand, I'm glad you're in the Air Force and not in the Army so you won't be leading my son. On the other hand, as a former AF enlisted, I'm disappointed. The Air Force has obviously lowered its standards since 1999.
You have exhibited contempt for military officers. Do I need to remind you of your enlistment oath? You are to obey orders from the superiors appointed over you and officers are your superiors whether you like it or not. The Chief I worked for would have put you in your place or even kicked your butt all the way to civilianhood. The supervisors you've had have set a very poor example for you to follow. Good discipline is paramount in any military unit. The "attitude" I'm referring to is that you seem to believe you know more than your superiors and that you don't need to learn anything from someone with different views. Arrogant and disrespectful: that's the attitude I am talking about.
During my last two years in the AF I had the opportunity of working alongside a full bird Colonel who was one heck of a leader and I not only respected him, but I also trusted his judgement. And yes, he had more formal education than me, you and your wife put together.
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. The OP is not an extremist. The OP was conducting an assessment and found some patterns. He was inviting other people of his race to evaluate actions/tendencies of other white people. The OP feels certain people of his own race are projecting a bad image/perception and that affects him. That does not make him an EXTREMIST.
The words "easily", "most", "not all", "seem", and "probably" do not constitute empirical data. Your statements in 1,2, and 3 are not evidence-based. Assumptions and blanket statements are dangerous. In all your years in the service, didn't anybody ever tell you not to assume? You have extremely poor critical thinking skills. Attend a reputable institution of higher learning and take courses in logic and critical thinking. You will profit from it, I assure you.
Finally, a few words of advise, in case you are still in the military: think before you speak because the toes you step on today, may be attached to an A$$ you'll have to kiss tomorrow.
Yes, it is my opinion and I stand by it. I read all your posts. On the one hand, I'm glad you're in the Air Force and not in the Army so you won't be leading my son. On the other hand, as a former AF enlisted, I'm disappointed. The Air Force has obviously lowered its standards since 1999.
Oh sure. Yeah the standards had to have been much higher in the 90's right? In case you havent noticed, we are fighting a two front war. We need higher standards if anything. And btw...I was in at 1999. We went from a pretty lax force as a whole to a very ramped up, do more with less type of force today. Talk about jumping to conclusions.
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Originally Posted by EDnurse
You have exhibited contempt for military officers. Do I need to remind you of your enlistment oath? You are to obey orders from the superiors appointed over you and officers are your superiors whether you like it or not. The Chief I worked for would have put you in your place or even kicked your butt all the way to civilianhood. The supervisors you've had have set a very poor example for you to follow. Good discipline is paramount in any military unit. The "attitude" I'm referring to is that you seem to believe you know more than your superiors and that you don't need to learn anything from someone with different views. Arrogant and disrespectful: that's the attitude I am talking about.
You dont need to remind me of anything. I have shown no contempt for officers...I showed contempt for a certain type of personality some officers have. Nor did I say I had ever disrespected any officer. Though I do think its a little funny when those LT's ask me what to do in a situation when they have had so much more training than me. The Chief you worked for probably would have busted his butt to help me out just like every other Chief I've worked with. Here's a clue for you...the military isnt the movies. There are soldiers/airman/marines/sailors that do the job and keep their trap shut and that is fine. There are also aggressive types that go out and go beyond that. These people are recognized as leaders. And they are helped up the chain and put into places a little faster than others. And for the record, I've never been disrectful of anyone that wasnt disrespectful to me. And that includes you. Maybe you should get off your pedestal and look in the mirror before you judge. That will require you to pull your head out of your a$$ first though. Be careful.
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Originally Posted by EDnurse
During my last two years in the AF I had the opportunity of working alongside a full bird Colonel who was one heck of a leader and I not only respected him, but I also trusted his judgement. And yes, he had more formal education than me, you and your wife put together.
You have no idea how much formal education my wife and I have. Though your lack of reading comprehension and critical thinking skills might be bringing that average down.
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Originally Posted by EDnurse
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. The OP is not an extremist. The OP was conducting an assessment and found some patterns. He was inviting other people of his race to evaluate actions/tendencies of other white people. The OP feels certain people of his own race are projecting a bad image/perception and that affects him. That does not make him an EXTREMIST.
The OP made a sweeping generalization of an entire demographic and in the process insulted that demographic several times over. He also stated all rural white boys should be acting like europeans. These arent statements made by a logical person. These are statements made by an extremist. You on the other hand are worse. You know this and decided to twist his words around to fit an argument...which you are losing horribly.
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Originally Posted by EDnurse
The words "easily", "most", "not all", "seem", and "probably" do not constitute empirical data. Your statements in 1,2, and 3 are not evidence-based. Assumptions and blanket statements are dangerous. In all your years in the service, didn't anybody ever tell you not to assume? You have extremely poor critical thinking skills. Attend a reputable institution of higher learning and take courses in logic and critical thinking. You will profit from it, I assure you.
I'm not making assumptions or blanket statements. That would be the OP...which you just defended a second ago. These are opinions of mine...not facts. Therefore I wont put a finalizing word on them. I use words like "easily", "most", "not all", and "seem" because they are my observations. You can disagree all you want if you'd like. Its called a conversation. Do you ever have them outside of this forum?
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Originally Posted by EDnurse
Finally, a few words of advise, in case you are still in the military: think before you speak because the toes you step on today, may be attached to an A$$ you'll have to kiss tomorrow.
First I would never take advice from such a 1 dimensional person. Second, I've never kissed anyone's a$$ in the military and I seem to be doing pretty well so far.
Oh sure. Yeah the standards had to have been much higher in the 90's right? In case you havent noticed, we are fighting a two front war. We need higher standards if anything. And btw...I was in at 1999. We went from a pretty lax force as a whole to a very ramped up, do more with less type of force today. Talk about jumping to conclusions.
You dont need to remind me of anything. I have shown no contempt for officers...I showed contempt for a certain type of personality some officers have. Nor did I say I had ever disrespected any officer. Though I do think its a little funny when those LT's ask me what to do in a situation when they have had so much more training than me. The Chief you worked for probably would have busted his butt to help me out just like every other Chief I've worked with. Here's a clue for you...the military isnt the movies. There are soldiers/airman/marines/sailors that do the job and keep their trap shut and that is fine. There are also aggressive types that go out and go beyond that. These people are recognized as leaders. And they are helped up the chain and put into places a little faster than others. And for the record, I've never been disrectful of anyone that wasnt disrespectful to me. And that includes you. Maybe you should get off your pedestal and look in the mirror before you judge. That will require you to pull your head out of your a$$ first though. Be careful.
You have no idea how much formal education my wife and I have. Though your lack of reading comprehension and critical thinking skills might be bringing that average down.
The OP made a sweeping generalization of an entire demographic and in the process insulted that demographic several times over. He also stated all rural white boys should be acting like europeans. These arent statements made by a logical person. These are statements made by an extremist. You on the other hand are worse. You know this and decided to twist his words around to fit an argument...which you are losing horribly.
I'm not making assumptions or blanket statements. That would be the OP...which you just defended a second ago. These are opinions of mine...not facts. Therefore I wont put a finalizing word on them. I use words like "easily", "most", "not all", and "seem" because they are my observations. You can disagree all you want if you'd like. Its called a conversation. Do you ever have them outside of this forum?
First I would never take advice from such a 1 dimensional person. Second, I've never kissed anyone's a$$ in the military and I seem to be doing pretty well so far.
You stated you're working on your Bachelor's and that your wife is working on her Master's. I told you I read your posts.
Out of curiosity, what is your AFSC?
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