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Sorry, I have sources. You just ignore them.
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You cant ignore whats not posted. In every claim Ive made, Ive provided citation. Other than a quote taken from a link on one of my pages, you have yet to show any source. Lets not make things up as we go, shall we?
No but he did imply it, and that was enough for SC the fire on the flag and withdraw from the union.
Dude, you are trying to make up history, but this is a common fact. Ive posted the link to you 4 times now. Im going to stop doing it until you check it.
You did get ONE thing correct
1 months time between taking office and SC firing on the flag.
That wasnt in the days of TV and internet. Any action lincoln did would have taken weeks to get through to the rest of the nation. SC was going to leave either way, because an abolitionist president was election,
The south was planning to leave the INSTANT it didnt get its way. Havent you ever read the transcript of the Lincoln Douglas Debates, before Lincoln won the presidency? As far as the confederates were concerned, slavery was biblical and natural, and blacks were 'as to horse to be ridden' (animals for service)'. It was even threatening to do so all the way back to the MexicanAmerican war, which was advocated most by southern congressmen who wanted to annex mexico, kick out the mexicans and add new slave states.
[Preparing for you to ignore, again, the links given, and give another of your opinions]
Links to bull**** are meant to be ignored.
Again, you refuse basic history, either that which is well know and to wich even revisionist historians agree, or to that which I have indeed given citation to.
And again, Lincoln implied nothing, and did not advocate removing slavery from the southern states. Besides the lack of any quotes, one can plainly see this in the FACT that he made no attempt to free people in Union states. He DID advocate abolishion, but by democratic means, not war.
And yes, I have read the debates, they support my position.
And your wiki link certainly doesn;t support your idea in the least, nor your alleged example of something the United States had already been doing, and would contunue to do after the War. ie expand.
Again, you refuse basic history, either that which is well know and to wich even revisionist historians agree, or to that which I have indeed given citation to.
And again, Lincoln implied nothing, and did not advocate removing slavery from the southern states. Besides the lack of any quotes, one can plainly see this in the FACT that he made no attempt to free people in Union states. He DID advocate abolishion, but by democratic means, not war.
And yes, I have read the debates, they support my position.
And your wiki link certainly doesn;t support your idea in the least, nor your alleged example of something the United States had already been doing, and would contunue to do after the War. ie expand.
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How come you are quoting yourself? I think you actually believe what you write!
Just because you are older doesn't make you smarter. It is not a matter of debating the origin of the confederate flag and who cares anyway. This is the only place I have ever read that tries to validate the confederate flag despite what it represents. You can try to confuse the issue with nonsense but to Americans the confederacy represents the enemy. Maybe you could use some basic middle school educating because there is nothing in history books that support what you believe.
Attempting to claim the Southern Cross is some inherent symbol of hate and racism is akin to attempting to claimm we were foudned as a "Christian Nation" and trying to state the Declaration of Independance is our Founding Document.
Both require vast amounts of revised history and minuscule amounts of intelligence.
californio sur
Are you aware that the KKK did not even originate in the true south? Williamson County in Illinois is the home of the clan. They high-jacked the Confederate flag. It has served their purpose well. I am originally from Oregon, I was not taught in school to associate the Confederate Flag with anything beyond the 'Southern States'. I now live in southern Illinois very near Williamson County and have read the history of this area in depth. I also live near Cave-in-Rock and 'The Old Slave House' chains still in the walls. You have learned a history that is very slanted if not outright wrong.
"they lied" is about as much an argument as "your wrong", without any sources provided on either side.
SC fired on a federal fortafter lincolns election They openly opposed the election of an abolitionist, and threatened to leave if slavery were not expanded and protected.
They left because an anti-slavist president was elected, and this threatened their economy, defendant way of life, and their sense of natural racial supremacy.
Unfortunately, Lincoln was not an abolitionist. He didn't approve of slavery, but he also did not advocate ending slavery in the South.
As for opposing for Lincoln, did he run for President in the South? Was he on the ballot in South Carolina? Was he on the ballot in Mississippi? Was he on the ballot in Georgia? The election of Lincoln wasn't just about electing someone who thought slavery was wrong, it was about electing a President who didn't get a single vote in the South because he wasn't on the ballot in the South. It's a bit hard to feel like your federal government represents you when the person elected to head that federal government wasn't even a candidate in HALF the country.
They left because their HALF of the country was left out of a national election. It was a demonstration of the raw power the Northern urban centers had over the federal government. Someone who wasn't even a candidate in HALF the country was elected.
Just because you are older doesn't make you smarter. It is not a matter of debating the origin of the confederate flag and who cares anyway. This is the only place I have ever read that tries to validate the confederate flag despite what it represents. You can try to confuse the issue with nonsense but to Americans the confederacy represents the enemy. Maybe you could use some basic middle school educating because there is nothing in history books that support what you believe.
Actually, there is. You just haven't read all the history books.
As for the confederacy representing the enemy to all Americans, perhaps you should read some of what Lincoln wrote about the Confederacy. Lincoln never acknowledges that Confederates were anything but Americans. This was a Civil War, American against American. If you are being taught that this was American against anti-American, then you are being mis-taught.
I don't see why there's a question. We see a whole lot of foreign flags displayed and because they supposedly represent a racial pride - but also allegience to a foreign nation and it's called free speech. We can't have free speech limited to only non-Americans or patriots of foreign nations.
""My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause""
The above is from a private letter to Horace Greely written in 1862.
Lincoln prosecuted a war against SC because SC left the Union, not to "end slavery".
No other state was attacked until they left the Union, Union states either had no abolishion laws or did not enforce ones in place, the Emancipation Proclimation was not crafted until two years into the war and did not seek to free anyone in the Union. Do you really require links to these facts even revisionists agree with?
The slavery issue was introduced when support for the war began to fade in the North, and to remove material support from France and England for the CSA. The former backfired and almost cost the Union the war, the latter helped them to win the conflict. Refer to this heading and the one following.
The Proclamation was immediately denounced by Copperhead Democrats who opposed the war and tolerated both secession and slavery. It became a campaign issue in the 1862 elections, in which the Democrats gained 28 seats in the House as well as the governorship of New York. Many War Democrats who had supported Lincoln's goal of saving the Union, balked at supporting emancipation. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address in November 1863 made indirect reference to the Proclamation and the ending of slavery as a war goal with the phrase "new birth of freedom". The Proclamation solidified Lincoln's support among the rapidly growing abolitionist element of the Republican Party and ensured they would not block his re-nomination in 1864.[21]
As Lincoln had hoped, the Proclamation turned foreign popular opinion in favor of the Union by adding the ending of slavery as a goal of the war. That shift ended the Confederacy's hopes of gaining official recognition, particularly from the United Kingdom, which had abolished slavery. Prior to Lincoln's decree, Britain's actions had favored the Confederacy, especially in its provision of British-built warships such as the CSS Alabama and CSS Florida. Furthermore, the North's determination to win at all costs was creating problems diplomatically; the Trent Affair particularly had caused severe tensions between the Union and Great Britain. For the Confederacy to receive official recognition by foreign powers would have been a further blow to the North's diplomatic standing.
With the war now cast in terms of freedom against slavery, British or French support for the Confederacy would have been seen as tantamount to supporting slavery, which both of these nations had abolished. As Henry Adams noted, "The Emancipation Proclamation has done more for us than all our former victories and all our diplomacy." Giuseppe Garibaldi hailed Lincoln as "the heir of the aspirations of John Brown". On August 6, 1863 Garibaldi wrote to Lincoln: Posterity will call you the great emancipator, a more enviable title than any crown could be, and greater than any merely mundane treasure.[22]
Alan Van Dyke, a representative for workers from Manchester, England, wrote to Lincoln saying, "We joyfully honor you for many decisive steps toward practically exemplifying your belief in the words of your great founders: 'All men are created free and equal.'" The Emancipation Proclamation served to ease tensions with Europe over the North's conduct of the war, and combined with the recent failed Southern offensive at Antietam to cut off any practical chance for the Confederacy to receive international support in the war.
Now, you have been offered your links, refute my points.
Dude, I'm not the one arguing with you....
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