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I guess your refusal to defend Carter is an admission that he is the father of Islamic extremism in our time.
Right. Carter coordinated that whole Munich Olympics thing, too. You can make a better case that Eisenhower and his idiot Secretary of State Dulles were the fathers of Islamic extremism in our time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
By facilitating the return of the Ayatolloah from Paris, your man, Jimmy, has been the seed of Islamic fanatacism and the root of thier rise in the last 40 years. Thanks Jimmy! Saggy, what do you suppose would have happened if Jimmy would have worked to establish a democracy in Iran after the Shah, rather than a radical fundamentalist government? The world would have been a much safer place.
Maybe you could read some actual history of the time. The pro-democracy groups in Iran -- drawn mostly from the educated commercial middle and upper-middle classes -- favored the return of Khomeini to power. This was because they believed that he would merely organize and lead an Islamic advisory council to a government that would actually be run by them, the key people in the country's economic system.
They were completely wrong about that, and you are completely wrong about assumptions you make based upon a near total ignorance of the situation in Iran in 1979 and the roots, causes, and long-standing processes that lay behind and underneath that situation.
Arafat robs millions from the people who entrusted him and you aptly note his "liberal" interpretation of ethics and morals. Finally, a truthful post and a Freudian slip in one.
I believe I referred to fiduciary responsibility, not ethics and morals, but among those with sieves for memories, such confusions are expected on a regular basis. Meanwhile, Arafat's financial deeds or misdeeds still have no relevance at all to understanding and evaluating the Clinton-brokered deal that Arafat ultimately walked away from in July of 2000. And the word liberal actually has many uses and meanings. A shame that you are seemingly able to recognize so few of them. Perhaps your exposure could be broadened if you were to read more from actually educated commentators and less from right-wing dullards and hacks?
Arafat may or may not have made a mistake. It was as good an offer as he was going to get on the one hand, and an offer still stacked heavily in Israel's favor on the other. But the point at the moment is how far we moved in eight totally counter-productive years away from being able even to have the discussions that are necessary as precursors to developing the sort of proposals that the various sides could even begin to consider.
Arafat MAY have made a mistake?!
He rejected an offer which would have given him everything he wanted except the "right of return" (destroying Israel by flooding it with "refugees").
He then launched a massive campaign of suicide bombings and other murders aimed strictly at unarmed men, women, and children.
Your very distorted view of the mideast comes from looking at it through an extreme leftist lens.
And as the result of that, we had to have Israel bomb Lebanon back to a pre-civil war state, and then launch merciless, unnecessary, and unproductive attacks on the Gaza Strip. .
Can you also tell us when, why and under what conditions the Palestinians continued to lob rockets at Israel, even after cease war proclamations?
They too were merciless, unnecessary, and unproductive attacks on Israel.
Put your thinking cap on straight...it's leaning to the far left (still), for all to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques Obama's approval rating in Israel is 4 percent? That by itself is reason enough for me to vote for him again.
southward bound asks:
Why?
If I may interject here. The answer is simple. You see southward, the poster who you are addressing has clearly shown, in his long history of posts regarding Israel, that he opposes Israel's existence.
Arafat MAY have made a mistake?!
He rejected an offer which would have given him everything he wanted except the "right of return" (destroying Israel by flooding it with "refugees").
I don't disagree with the notion that Arafat should have taken the deal. But there are valid arguments to say that he shouldn't have. The agreement on the table was well short of everything the Palestinians wanted, and it was couched strongly in terms of being "final"...as in, we will give you this, and then never anything else again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow
He then launched a massive campaign of suicide bombings and other murders aimed strictly at unarmed men, women, and children.
Really? Were there any other events in the aftermath of July 25? For instance, did any Israeli leaders deliberately make provocative visits to the Temple Mount at that time? Were any unarmed Palestinian youths then simply gunned down in the streets of East Jerusalem by Israeli security forces?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow
Your very distorted view of the mideast comes from looking at it through an extreme leftist lens.
Recognizing that there are two sides to this conflict -- only one of which has been traditionally reported in western media -- does not mean that one sees only the Palestinian side. It is criticisms such as yours above that suggest a one-sided view of the matter.
Some of you are putting Obama down for not bringing peace to the Middle East in his 10 months in office. If that makes him an "amateur in the White House" what does that make Bush who had 8 years to bring peace to the Middle East but instead managed to start two wars that the next ten generations will still be paying for?
Sarene: You've made several comments in this thread saying that "most liberals hate" Jewish people. As a liberal with many liberal friends I resent your generalization. It simply isn't true nor fair to make a blanket statement like that. I think you have liberals mixed up with the KKK who freely admit to being in the 'hate business.'
Can you also tell us when, why and under what conditions the Palestinians continued to lob rockets at Israel, even after cease war proclamations?
Which occasion do you speak of? The six-month cease fire agreed to in June 2008 was broken by Israel by bombing a supply tunnel under construction and killing six Palestinians. In response, Palestinians fired rockets that resulted in minor injuries to 18 Israelis. If you mean the supposed ceasefire announced by Hamas on November 23 of this year, that announcement was followed almost immediately by announcements from nearly every Palestinian militant group that it had not been consulted and would not be observing the ceasefire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound
They too were merciless, unnecessary, and unproductive attacks on Israel.
Put your thinking cap on straight...it's leaning to the far left (still), for all to see.
Suicide bombs and rocket attacks are not helpful or productive, but they are approximately the only weapons that the Palestinians have at their disposal, and it is unreasonable for Israelis or any others to suppose that Palestinians will not resort to such weapons as they have available when they are provoked. Considering that they are at all times being provoked by border closings, supply cut-offs, and having their infrastructure bombed and their populations murdered by one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world, the Palestinians have actually shown more restraint than might reasonably have been expected.
Really? Were there any other events in the aftermath of July 25? For instance, did any Israeli leaders deliberately make provocative visits to the Temple Mount at that time?
You are implying that a visit to the Temple Mount by an Israeli leader, a site open to visits by tourists and Israelis and Arabs every day, was a valid reason for the launching of a campaign of mass murder.
Crazy.
Again, this reflects an extreme leftist point of view.
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