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Old 07-26-2017, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,851 posts, read 25,787,282 times
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Clinton had the same intelligence as Bush, he didn't invade but he didn't have Cheney and Rumsfeld to tell him this was a good idea.

Last edited by Goodnight; 07-26-2017 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:19 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,444,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Clinton had the same intelligence as Bush, he didn't invade but he didn't have Cheney.
He kept tellling us, along with most Democrats, that Iraq had WMDs including a nuclear program and that Iraq was a huge danger to the world.

Need quotes?

You do realize that his wife, Hillary, had access to the intel and voted for the war.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:23 PM
 
23,739 posts, read 14,846,592 times
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IIRC going way back in time, all kinds of people who were in a position to know said there were no WMD in Iraq. They had the serial numbers of all of it. Scott Ritter was on CSPAN all the time. Then they got him for child porno on his government computer. That was later said to be an 'error'. It was about the same time the cops picked up Bill Moyers on a trumped up DWI charge that was dismissed after it made all the papers

Cheney was calling the shots on all of it, that lying sumbitch. And he fights dirty.

Cheney changed the intel.

Pilot, enough of that they voted for it, too. The house and senate did not have the same intel as Cheney and Bush. Especially after Cheney cooked the books. But, if this old women in Houston knew Cheney was a lying sob, Billary should have, too. She is not as big a war monger, but close.

When Cheney was at Halliburton they bought a company without doing due diligence. Halliburton was about to go belly up. That would have had a bad result on all that deferred compensation Cheney left at Halliburton. Hence a war where Halliburton got all kinds of no bid contracts. IIRC, the work was so shoddy they electrocuted a few people.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:34 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,003,266 times
Reputation: 18824
Again, a reading of Stovepipe by Sy Hersh is all the information you need to read to find out what actually happened.

The CIA, even as worthless an organization as they are, knew better about Iraq and wanted to warn the White House off of it. The White House intentionally massaged the intel and made it very clear to their underlings that bringing them anything less than a justification for war would not be tolerated. George Tenet knew it was all bull, but he wasn't about to take on Cheney and Cheney's national security deputies. The PNAC guys had a huge voice in the administration, and guys like Wolfowitz and Feith weren't about to be ursurped by the intel agencies.

So Tenet did what he felt he had to do, which was a tremendous failing on his part. He should've resigned instead.

This is the Bible on how the Bush Administration screwed it all up:

The Stovepipe
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:36 PM
 
45,680 posts, read 23,818,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theolsarge View Post
From the reports I've read, not news stories or commentary, the CIA told Bush what he wanted to hear. There was plenty of dissent within the "intelligence community", as a whole, but the dissent was never presented to the President. President Bush simply didn't want to hear it.

It's interesting to note the dissent came from experts while the assent came from the spooks.

Kindly consult the "Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq". I've still got my copy - printed.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/c...1/s108-301.zip (broken link)
Republican disaster.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:36 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,444,545 times
Reputation: 22228
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Again, a reading of Stovepipe by Sy Hersh is all the information you need to read to find out what actually happened.

The CIA, even as worthless an organization as they are, knew better about Iraq and wanted to warn the White House off of it. The White House intentionally massaged the intel and made it very clear to their underlings that bringing them anything less than a justification for war would not be tolerated. George Tenet knew it was all bull, but he wasn't about to take on Cheney and Cheney's national security deputies. The PNAC guys had a huge voice in the administration, and guys like Wolfowitz and Feith weren't about to be ursurped by the intel agencies.

So Tenet did what he felt he had to do, which was a tremendous failing on his part. He should've resigned instead.

This is the Bible on how the Bush Administration screwed it all up:

The Stovepipe
Why did the top Democrats, including Bill, keep telling us that Iraq had WMDs PRIOR to the election of Bush?
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:37 PM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,506,905 times
Reputation: 37760
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
IIRC going way back in time, all kinds of people who were in a position to know said there were no WMD in Iraq. They had the serial numbers of all of it. Scott Ritter was on CSPAN all the time. Then they got him for child porno on his government computer. That was later said to be an 'error'. It was about the same time the cops picked up Bill Moyers on a trumped up DWI charge that was dismissed after it made all the papers

Cheney was calling the shots on all of it, that lying sumbitch. And he fights dirty.

Cheney changed the intel.

Pilot, enough of that they voted for it, too. The house and senate did not have the same intel as Cheney and Bush. Especially after Cheney cooked the books. But, if this old women in Houston knew Cheney was a lying sob, Billary should have, too. She is not as big a war monger, but close.

When Cheney was at Halliburton they bought a company without doing due diligence. Halliburton was about to go belly up. That would have had a bad result on all that deferred compensation Cheney left at Halliburton. Hence a war where Halliburton got all kinds of no bid contracts. IIRC, the work was so shoddy they electrocuted a few people.

Chalabi was a lying SOB and anyone who listened to him for two minutes could tell that.

The intelligence community was not supporting the lies Cheney and the Neo-cons were pumping out there about mushroom clouds, etc.

Cheney and Nowak outed undercover agent Valarie Plame after her husband came back with the report that there was no evidence to support the yellowcake story they were peddling.

They knew they were lying and I knew they were lying.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,851 posts, read 25,787,282 times
Reputation: 15428
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
He kept tellling us, along with most Democrats, that Iraq had WMDs including a nuclear program and that Iraq was a huge danger to the world.

Need quotes?

You do realize that his wife, Hillary, had access to the intel and voted for the war.
I know that congress voted to authorize, there was a tremendous amount of pressure to vote yes and few had the courage to vote no. But the decision rested with Bush as it did with Clinton.


North Korea also has WMD and if you believe Israel then Iran had them for 10 years, should we invade? It's one thing to have intelligence and approval, quite another to act.

Last edited by Goodnight; 07-26-2017 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:43 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,444,545 times
Reputation: 22228
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Chalabi was a lying SOB and anyone who listened to him for two minutes could tell that.

The intelligence community was not supporting the lies Cheney and the Neo-cons were pumping out there about mushroom clouds, etc.

Cheney and Nowak outed undercover agent Valarie Plame after her husband came back with the report that there was no evidence to support the yellowcake story they were peddling.

They knew they were lying and I knew they were lying.
Same question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Why did the top Democrats, including Bill, keep telling us that Iraq had WMDs PRIOR to the election of Bush?
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:57 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,003,266 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Why did the top Democrats, including Bill, keep telling us that Iraq had WMDs PRIOR to the election of Bush?
I don't know and it doesn't matter.

The Bush Administration used it as a pretext for war, and that's a huge difference. Clinton did not disable the filters that are designed to weed out bad information before it gets to the president. The Bush Administration absolutely DID disable those filters, and furthermore, they empowered idiots like Bolton (huge mistake), Perle, Feith, and Wolfowitz, who had an agendas that had little to do with stopping terrorism and everything to do with pushing for a regime change largely on behalf of the Israelis for their own selfish reasons . And the crazy thing is that they won't dispute that argument.

People should have went to prison for the Iraq War, and I mean that literally. It's a crime against the American people, the Iraqi people, and the 4500 dead American soldiers who died for absolutely nothing.

It's the worst foreign policy blunder in our history with unbelievably far reaching consequences that are gonna reverberate (horribly) for decades. It destabilized the region by making Iran supreme, and not only creating ISIS but metastasizing it. It's a real black mark on our history, and proves to the world that we aren't a nation to be trusted.
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