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Old 12-01-2009, 02:48 PM
 
1,718 posts, read 2,290,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
"Just dumb as a brick"............

AND mentally ill on top of that. For all we know, that guy could have thought those police officers were aliens out to get him.......or out to get Jesus. We just don't know what was in his mind. And unfortunately because we didn't care to deal with his mind when we had a chance, those four police officers are dead.
You may be correct of course. However, if he was that far gone I think it would have come out during his past encounters with the criminal justice system and incarceration.

Still, as I say, you may be correct. However, I'm betting that all they would have found if they looked at him was an angry, bitter man with an IQ of about 65. I'm betting all they would have found was a man angry with a society that had no place for him. I think that this is far more likely than him thinking that the police were aliens who were going to abduct him.

I'm betting that there are a large number of folks in prison that fall into this same category. Not mentally ill or retarded. Just unintelligent and not making it in this society and angry and bitter as a result.

But, you may be correct. I just don't think that you are.

- Reel
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:53 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,882,796 times
Reputation: 12439
If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

I know it's cliche', but it's true. The honest people will have their right taken away, and the criminals won't follow the restrictions anyway, and will still carry their firearms. In fact, it would only empower the criminals more, as now their victims won't armed.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:56 PM
 
304 posts, read 885,225 times
Reputation: 281
"Clemmons, 37, was carrying a gun he had taken from one of his victims when he was confronted by a patrolman making a routine check of a stolen car, said Seattle police. "
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:56 PM
 
3,857 posts, read 4,201,206 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta View Post
You may be correct of course. However, if he was that far gone I think it would have come out during his past encounters with the criminal justice system and incarceration.

Still, as I say, you may be correct. However, I'm betting that all they would have found if they looked at him was an angry, bitter man with an IQ of about 65. I'm betting all they would have found was a man angry with a society that had no place for him. I think that this is far more likely than him thinking that the police were aliens who were going to abduct him.

I'm betting that there are a large number of folks in prison that fall into this same category. Not mentally ill or retarded. Just unintelligent and not making it in this society and angry and bitter as a result.

But, you may be correct. I just don't think that you are.

- Reel
My guess is that his mental problems did come out during his incarceration ......it was just noted in some report, and that was the end of that. If he acted out, he would have been put in solitary. That's about it. Important to not over-estimate a prison medical facility, mental or otherwise.

This is what is being said:

"Clemmons' sister … told (police) "Maurice is not in his right mind “...he was saying that the secret service was coming to get him because he had written a letter to the President. …(H)is behavior has become unpredictable and erratic.” She suspects he is having a mental breakdown," the report says.
..(O)ther family members…reported that Clemmons had been saying he could fly and that he expected President Obama to visit to "confirm that he is Messiah in the flesh."

DJ Jaffe: Maurice Clemmons: Mental Illness Does Cause Violence
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:57 PM
 
304 posts, read 885,225 times
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Oh and for the knubskull who said "well the police were armed and trained and they couldn't stop him..."

"Clemmons had already been shot in his stomach by one of his victims in the coffee shop. The wound had been dressed with cotton wool balls and duct tape, and police expressed surprise that he had survived. "

That shot to the stomach could have been to the heart - different ending.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:57 PM
 
3,857 posts, read 4,201,206 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
you can't be serious? I too like to see fair trials, I think we all do, but in this case he had a gun, it was stolen from one of the officers he killed and you don't think he should have been shot and killed? What do you think he would have done to them if he had even one second to respond?

NIta
He would have used that gun for sure. I agree.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:06 PM
 
2,229 posts, read 1,677,927 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Holy Cow, now it is our fault!!! Wow, this is getting deeper all the time..

Nita

In some regards, it is societies fault. The fact that this man made it through childhood, of which his mind was filled with these ideas, and then into adult hood where nobody flagged him as a dangerous individual makes it our fault. How many times was he arrested before? How many times did he commit crimes? Was he properly raised as a child?

It isn't "your fault", nor mine... the point of my thread though is that his death, or the death of any other human being should be celebrated.

How our country can produce this type of animal needs to be called into question. If we all stopped cheering for a moment and took a good long hard look in the mirror.. maybe we could figure out why exactly these things are allowed to happen.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:09 PM
 
1,718 posts, read 2,290,975 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
My guess is that his mental problems did come out during his incarceration ......it was just noted in some report, and that was the end of that. If he acted out, he would have been put in solitary. That's about it. Important to not over-estimate a prison medical facility, mental or otherwise.

This is what is being said:

"Clemmons' sister … told (police) "Maurice is not in his right mind “...he was saying that the secret service was coming to get him because he had written a letter to the President. …(H)is behavior has become unpredictable and erratic.” She suspects he is having a mental breakdown," the report says.
..(O)ther family members…reported that Clemmons had been saying he could fly and that he expected President Obama to visit to "confirm that he is Messiah in the flesh."

DJ Jaffe: Maurice Clemmons: Mental Illness Does Cause Violence

That's too bad. I guess he was just a bad apple in so many different ways. Mental health lost a lot of funding recently and there are a lot of folks wandering around that shouldn't be. Most are not violent but some are. Somehow this guy impressed enough people that he got pardoned. Maybe he took a turn for the worse when he got out. Maybe the relatives are just blowin' smoke. I don't know.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,129,498 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
Geeee! So now you are in my mind and my personal life. Wow! You know, the ignorance of that statement just makes me think that you are not a lawyer now and never have been one.
Your personal attack aside - I defend criminals in the courts. A number of my clients are found not guilty - even though they did the crime.

I did my job.

Does that mean I like criminals? No.

Professional life is seperate from personal life

Professional actions and beliefs can be different from personal actions and beliefs.

From what you have written, and your inabilty to understand these basic concepts - I have reason to believe you do not work in any area of criminal justice
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:24 PM
 
3,857 posts, read 4,201,206 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Your personal attack aside - I defend criminals in the courts. A number of my clients are found not guilty - even though they did the crime.

I did my job.

Does that mean I like criminals? No.

Professional life is seperate from personal life

Professional actions and beliefs can be different from personal actions and beliefs.

From what you have written, and your inabilty to understand these basic concepts - I have reason to believe you do not work in any area of criminal justice
Whatever.
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