Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Rape is an emotional experience.
Sorry you don't seem to understand it.
It is an emotional experience. I do not have to have gone through such horrible experience to be involved on the issue, to support women, to help women, etc. I may not have the least idea of how it feels to be raped but I am capable of being caring to the suffering and pain of a human being. Do I need to get shot for me to care for one of my wounded Soldier in the battle field? I do not think so.
People have experienced physical, emotional, and mental pain in some form or another and to differing degrees. A caring individual with training can be capable of caring for another human being that is in pain and suffering without having to have experienced the same.
I am also a Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) volunteer on behalf of neglected and/or abused children. Do I have to be a victim of parent abuse for me to care and help children? I do not think so either. There are volunteers that are not parents and not married that are great CASAs.
Does a male doctor have to have birth to children and to menstruate and to have other women peculiar issues to be a good doctor for women on their issues? Do you think he does not understand much about women needs in these peculiar areas?
Did I have to be an senior citizen in a nursing home to successfully volunteer with elders and be able to communicate with them on their issues of them being elders? No I did not and they cried when they learned I had a military transfer to another city and I was going to leave.
As an equal opportunity (EO) I did not have to go through racism and discrimination for me to help blacks and women. I have been successful on that area too. I put my neck on the line to the point that that I received threat letters for standing up and defending the rights we all have regardless of gender, religion, ethnicity, etc.
I did not have to have gone through Katrina to care for refugees in my city and volunteer with the Red Cross in helping them. Pain and suffering is something we all can associate with regardless of the type. I was able to sit down with them and help them cope with their emotional and mental state.
Fairness is something people either agree and understand or not and the same about pain and suffering regardless of what type.
I will say I understand it is difficult for you to accept I as a man can understand because I am not a rape victim. Actually depending on the individuals rape victims would make the worst victim advocates because it is difficult to maintain objectivity. I had to fill questionaires or successfully pass practice tests to be sexual assault victim advocate, to get domestic violence training, to be a CASA, and to be a suicide interventor, and a recruiter for mentors of chidren of prisoners. All these questionaires have the intent to gauge the objectivity of an individual. Objectivity is a very important quality you need to have to be able to handle these situations. Let me quote what a county judge wrote about me as a CASA: "He exemplifies the well-balanced person; for example he balances rational analysis with common sense....has a reputation of of being extremely reliable, caring, and committed to fair play in all aspects....and willing to fervently advocate for the children he has been assigned to serve as their guardian ad litem".
If you want to we can keep discussing the issue but I got the feeling we will go nowhere. It is up to you.
Actually, you and chielgirl are incorrect on this one as far as I am concerned. I did ask that question when I attended the rape and sexual assault training. It is not unusual and I can say by personal experience that women can feel comfortable talking about a sensitive issue like this with men. In the training the mentioned that it is not unsual for women to react even better with a man. In the training the experts on this field have stated many men are successful rape victim advocates. In my hometown I also talked to the local victim advocate because I told them I was interested in become a victim advocate in the community after I retire from the military next year. They said did not have an objection for me to apply. So as I see it, it is not "extemely unsual for a rape victim advocate to be a man". Also, as far as the rank part. When we get the training that is covered. I have a change of clothes so when I get a call if necessary I change so the Soldier does not see rank and in that setting I go by my first name with that victim, not rank. I emphazise your incorrect conclusion by letting you know that I am a Sergeant Major with 31 years of service, 56 years old and young 18 year old Private in rank females have called me for assistance and I have had no problem doing my duty as a victim advocate. In many of those cases they have not objected for me to be in uniform at all. As soon as I have sat down with them I emphazise that again and tell them to address me by my first name. The rape and victim advocates classes do have a lot males and so far this have not been a problem doing their duty also. I have also dealt with rape victims that went to this horrendous experience in the battlefield. The last one I dealt with was just about a month ago and she had not problem talking to me about her experience and was very grateful for my support and assistance.
It is good to have an open mind to other options and possibilites. In this case it is good to think outside the box and at least in this sense it has worked as I have seen it.
I do thank you for the compliment.
You have a great day.
El Amigo
I can see that you are taking this personally, but it is not intended to be a personal attack. I do however feel very strongly that wherever possible female rape counselors should counsel female rape victims. This is not some sexist/feminist pop-psychology opinion, this is because as you know rape is a crime of violence and control perpetrated against women, largely by men. I also happen to have experience in this field, more than I care to, and if the army is providing as their initial point of contact for the victim of a sex-based crime a male officer, I do have to say I don't believe they have the best interest of the victim in mind here. As far as counseling after the initial contact, then perhaps. Rape is the single biggest fear for most women apart from losing their loved ones. Vulnerability is a big factor in a woman's life, and there is absolutely no way a man can possibly identify with that. I know you say that is not necessary to deal with a rape survivor, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that. And as for your point that survivors do not make good counselors because they identify too strongly, I think that is a huge generalization without merit.
I think the military is trying to justify training officers to deal with this huge epidemic by giving false information that flies in the face of current logic and standard practice, and in my opinion if they truly had the best interests of the rape victims in mind the counselors would be female civilians. To me this just smacks of more fraternal cover-up (not by you personally of course). I don't think the military is being honest about what is going on, and to me there is no visible evidence they are really serious about dealing with it.
I can see that you are taking this personally, but it is not intended to be a personal attack. I do however feel very strongly that wherever possible female rape counselors should counsel female rape victims. This is not some sexist/feminist pop-psychology opinion, this is because as you know rape is a crime of violence and control perpetrated against women, largely by men. I also happen to have experience in this field, more than I care to, and if the army is providing as their initial point of contact for the victim of a sex-based crime a male officer, I do have to say I don't believe they have the best interest of the victim in mind here. As far as counseling after the initial contact, then perhaps. Rape is the single biggest fear for most women apart from losing their loved ones. Vulnerability is a big factor in a woman's life, and there is absolutely no way a man can possibly identify with that. I know you say that is not necessary to deal with a rape survivor, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that. And as for your point that survivors do not make good counselors because they identify too strongly, I think that is a huge generalization without merit.
I think the military is trying to justify training officers to deal with this huge epidemic by giving false information that flies in the face of current logic and standard practice, and in my opinion if they truly had the best interests of the rape victims in mind the counselors would be female civilians. To me this just smacks of more fraternal cover-up (not by you personally of course). I don't think the military is being honest about what is going on, and to me there is no visible evidence they are really serious about dealing with it.
No, you cannot see if I am taking this personally. At best it is an assumption. To me this forum is to exchange ideas. I have no reason to take something personally unless the individual clearly states he is. At least that is how I see it. I have no reason to take anything personal because I making my point just as anybody else. It seems people keep falling to using a very pervasive tactic. It is no different when sometimes a black may tell someone is racist for disagreeing on a racial issue. I guess there is nothing I can say on that one. That is the best I can say about that.
Now, you used a key word, "feel". Feelings are part of the human dimension but also logic and rational behavior. Feelings is a good gauge and factor in making decisions but it has to also allow for logic and objectivity. I do not "feel" only on this issue. I also use logic to handle issues with objectivity. Also, I have personally have seen that males HAVE been successful victim advocates besides myself. Have you tried and seen males being victim advocates to you support your "feel" view either way? In my case I base my points on tried and proved experiences by peers and myself. Now, I am not claiming every female will accept a male victim. I am saying males can and have been successful victim advocates and it is not something outrageuos to use males for this type of situation. You said you have experience on the field and so do I. The question again, have you looked into the possiblity that males can do the job? In other words are you willing to open your mind more and say "Ummm? Maybe it is possible" or you simply say it is not possible because you "feel"?
Another key word there "I do not believe" as to referring to male officers. That type of language tells me you are not going the objectivity route since it does not sound you have seen what I said and tried. Again, I have.
You said agree to disagree but again you did not provide a single study, example, or personnal experience to back up your claim. I will tell you I have seen it work to say the least.
Also, "And as for your point that survivors do not make good counselors because they identify too strongly, I think that is a huge generalization without merit." It seems you did the same thing the other member did. You did not see the whole context around my comment. Actually you compared oranges and apples here. I will paste it for you to see it. Maybe you missed it, did not understand it, or something else. I wrote: Actually depending on the individuals rape victims would make the worst victim advocates because it is difficult to maintain objectivity.
I did not generalize as you claimed. I stated depending on the individual.
Depending on the individual means some individuals may recover from such horrible experience much better than others and may not allow strong emotions to get in the way of helping a rape victim. Also, I never said counselors. I was talking about victim advocates. There is a difference between victim advocates and counselors.
Lastly, another key words as you expressed your point: I think the military is trying to justify training officers to deal with this huge epidemic by giving false information that flies in the face of current logic and standard practice, and in my opinion if they truly had the best interests of the rape victims in mind the counselors would be female civilians. To me this just smacks of more fraternal cover-up (not by you personally of course). I don't think the military is being honest about what is going on, and to me there is no visible evidence they are really serious about dealing with it. "I think" is an indicator of not having a complete picture and leaving doubt. Again, it seems you need to do more homework on the issue. I just called the "STARS" program in my hometown. They are the agency that trains victim advocates in our community. I asked them if they accept males for victim advoctes. She actually said they welcome males and that they are very successful in doing that so it is not the military as you seem to concentrate as others writers have. I have stated before that in the civilian community they accept them also but you seem to have a tunnel vision and keep aiming at the military. Also, your statement only mentions officers. I do not know why you said that because I never mentioned officers. Our class students are officers, NCOs, civilians, men, and women. There "is no visible evidence they are serious about dealing with it." because in my opinion your views cloud you from seeing it. I have seen the evidence and experienced it.
Males victim advocates are also accepted in the civilian community here and are even welcome. When I called STARS, the lady right away asked for my name for the volunteer recruiter to call me once I told here I was interested in being a victim advocate when I retire from the military next year. When I asked her if they have any objection since I am a male she said "No we don't!" and she even mentioned by name the male victim advocate that is on call on Saturdays.
Please compare your message and the others and you will see that none of you provide not a single example to support your views, just feelings, opinions, beliefs, etc. I have provided examples and even a phone call to the local STARS program, not just the military examples.
By the way, look what STARS has in their website on male victim advocates. I just looked it up.
It says: Men are welcome and encouraged to apply. We have trained and dedicated male volunteer outreach advocates who are retired military, federal law enforcement, retired medical personnel, and military reserves. All have one thin in common-- a willingness to help sexual assault victims become survivors. Sexual assault victims appreciate the presence of someone who offers compassion, a hand of support and strength, whether they are male or female!
So, by that logic maybe we could have avoided the costly and extraneous Iraq invasion if we did not have the 20% of the military composed of female troops?
Unlikely, they'd have still figured out a way to have that little fiasco (maybe reinstate the draft -- but, even removing that 20% there are still enough forces globally who could have been re-allocated to the mission without sending female troops there).
Your next post indicated that you think it's okay for US service members (and contractors) to rape.
Nice.
Consider yourself twitted.
I'm sickened by your posts.
Wow i am actually agreeing with you on something, amazing is it not.
My point on my posts are not to deny the fact that rape exists in the military. It does. The OP generalize it on all servicemembers, an exaggeration.
Now, is the rape rate in the military higher then in the civilian communities and as compared with other large corporations and/or similar organizations like police departments, firemen, etc? That one is hard to tell for a variety of reasons I already stated.
Some reasons how stats are differently gathered across the nation in different states and organization.
Heck, rape is differently defined in law books across different states also. Those different definitions do tend to produce different results.
Another one, in the services we do have very aggressive report and support programs for victims of rape and sexual assault. The result as I already stated can be that areas and organizations where there are proactive programs in place rape reports tend to be higher. Is that a reason maybe the services may have higher reported incidents? Hard to tell.
The same type of problem does exist in college campuses across the nations. Rarely do they say they have rape problems in their campus. Often they are swept under the rug. However, there are campuses that do have agreesive programs and they tend to also have higher reported incidents because victims are more willing to report and get help.
That is as best as I can address the issue but it does seem emotion do cloud these points and people cannot see further than that for that very same reason.
You have a great day.
El Amigo
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
