Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:05 PM
 
450 posts, read 501,960 times
Reputation: 203

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign View Post
It would be your opinion if you believe he is being "overly bashed for everything regarding how HE DECIDES to RUN America."

Well, some of us NEVER knew it was HIS sole descision to decide how HE should "run" America, but to GOVERN it as CiC and do so from a bipartisan view I thought?

Maybe it is NOT he who you believe is being bashed....as much as it is HIS "idea" on how to run America instead?

Perhaps, a LOT of folks DISAGREE with HIS agenda and HIS affiliation with certain individuals, both NOW......and in his past.
Perhaps, HIS idea is MORE crap......just like what we went through with 2 terms of Bush.....and can afford NO more of!

Perhaps a LOT of folks KNOW he has something to hide with such the dismay and loathing he has shown for Fox News......you know, the ONLY news station to blow the lid on ACORN and so much other CRAP showing what radicals and communists, Van Jones and Mao-admirers are plopped comfortably in the WH now or were so closely tied to BO one way or another.

Perhaps ANY form of HC legislation proposed by this admin. and THIS Congress.......is and will always be.....viewed as a massive takeover of US....more than anything resembling CARE...for OUR HEALTH.
Perhaps it's far too costly of a takeover too.
I totally disagree with you talk about Fox News. Its amazing all you all soak up everything Fox says.
Anything in the vicinity of the White House you all act like Obama was best friends with these "radicals" and personally support everything they do or said for the last decade. LOL!
Van Jones, who cares about him? Im sure in every single Presidential Admin there are plenty of crazy people who worked or was associated with the White House.
And regarding Acorn, you ppl act like Obama approved up this prostitution stuff. LOL how can Obama be blamed for Acron's employees screwing up?

You all really really reach to place blame on Obama EVERYTHING it is BEYOND laughable!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,353,885 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
So you all are saying it is because Obama is Black? Wow I hope that is not the case

But again I'm looking for that answer and no expert conservative in this forum have come here an answered that question for me in my OP
Similar things Reagan did that Obama (deficit spending, raises taxes, national debt) is doing now, Conservatives loved and praised Reagan but hate and despise Obama.
When Reagan was governor of California he raised the tax like all GOP governors have done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:11 PM
 
450 posts, read 501,960 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign View Post
I see NO benefit for the rich, the middle class or the poor under BO's proposed spending!
Absolutely NONE.......just the opposite, in fact.
YOU.....are obviously too blind to see this though.

Personally, I believe LESS Govt. intervention and LESS govt. spending would be far better when we are as economically distressed as we are.
Oh well, let's see how the voters feel next year.
That should be a pretty good indication of overall sentiment.
But SIGN in Reagan's 1st term he disagreed with your philsophy, HE implemented MORE Government intervention and MORE Government spending to deal with the issues in the U.S.
His party lost in the mid term elections in his 2nd year (just as you are predicted Obama will)

So again why was it was great for Reagan but you think Obama will DESTROY AMERICA doing the same thing Reagan did!

I don't get it....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:24 PM
 
1,747 posts, read 1,950,617 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
But SIGN in Reagan's 1st term he disagreed with your philsophy, HE implemented MORE Government intervention and MORE Government spending to deal with the issues in the U.S.
His party lost in the mid term elections in his 2nd year (just as you are predicted Obama will)

So again why was it was great for Reagan but you think Obama will DESTROY AMERICA doing the same thing Reagan did!

I don't get it....
First of all.......Obama and Reagan are 2 different people with 2 very different ideologies, beliefs and backgrounds.
Second.....this is NOT the early 1980s and despite the recession and what its root cause was THEN........the same cannot be said if our economic state in THIS recession by any stretch of the imagination!
Reagan DID increase spending and mostly by building up the defense/military and prison industrial complexes.....along with continued advancement in computer technology.....the economy recovered rather quickly.
NONE of which are occuring under Obama.....just a sincere desire to see universal HC reform at a measley 1+ TRILLION, on top of the bailouts and BS "stimulus" and this jobless recovery garbage.
Billions more for the infinite quest for victory....or whatever might define it, over there in Afghani-land. Prolong the misery and spending of the Bush years some more......to secure and rebuild these nations at all cost.....one at a time, 'ya know?
Who needs help after we're done fixing Afghani-land?
Like a good neighbor......we'll be there, no matter how bad of shape America is in!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Southeast
4,301 posts, read 7,022,679 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
And Obama raises Taxes on Businesses & Americans (the largest tax increase in history $100 billion tax hike) in his 2nd year in office, like Reagan did (TEFRA ACT of 1982)...
Not sure if that really counts, since TEFRA simply eliminated most of the original tax cuts (ERTA), bringing the net change to 0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
And lets say to get out of the recession Obama borrows records amount of money (quad-tripling the U.S. National debt), does Economic/Deficit Spending (continuing a bail-out of Chrysler, the railroad industry and Government takeover of failing Railroad Companies or the bailout of Banks like Continental National Bank deemed "TOO BIG TO FAIL), like Reagan did...
The railroads failed because government regulations prevented them from forming profitable networks, and required they provide extensive and prompt service, even if it meant riding 150 miles to deliver a single carload. There were no airline subsidies either, airlines were forced to serve every little dirt strip in the country regardless of profitability or ridership. Chrysler always fails, do they even need an excuse? You would think the issue with banks and the automakers would have been solved back then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
And lets say Obama administration began to fund and provide arms to two of our biggest enemies (lets use the Taliban and Iran).
Clinton funded the Taliban, yet caught no to heat for it. Like Reagan his popularity got him out of a number of sticky situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
like Reagan did (giving arms/aid to Iraq and Iran), also if Obama began providing funding for a guerrilla organization (Like the Guerrillas in Darfur) **against federal law** who were charged with genocide and war crimes, like Reagan did (providing funding for the Contras)....
So, where is the evidence that linked Reagan to Iran or the Contras? When was he charged? Impeached?

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
Also what if Obama gave a record number of illegal immigrants complete and full amnesty in an Immigration Reform Act, arguably causing a worsening immigration problem in America like Reagan did....
...Was it not Ted Kennedy that fathered that bill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
What if Obama by his 4th year in office, the recession has recovered, Unemployment is at an all-time low (since WWII), businesses are beginning to fully recover, America GDP starts a growth an average of 4% every year after, like Reagan did.
In the 80s and 90s economic expansion was fueled primarily by less government regulation and decline in oil prices. The latter will certainly never occur again in a post-9/11 world, so from this point forward I would not expect the economy to soar like it has in the past. Of course, unexpected things do happen, and if growth is at 8%+ for enough quarters like it was under Reagan I would warm up to Obama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
Or if Obama in his 2nd term lowered taxes by more than anytime in U.S. history (for Top Earners nearly cut in half), increased tax incentives for investments and home purchases, like Reagan Did.
I forget which tax bill I you are referring to, but one of the latter ones cut or exempted all income taxes for the poor. The top earners had their chance with ERTA and failed to change the economic climate. Didn't the corporate tax rate go up somewhere in there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
Again lets say if Obama does every single thing like Reagan did throughout his Presidency, I seriously want to know would Conservatives/Republicans praise Obama?
I doubt Reagan would have the stones to do everything Reagan did, such as firing air traffic controllers on strike illegally..

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
Would you all stop bashing and start liking him?
Actually I have not bashed him yet.. I prefer to read the opinions of others and take a wait and see approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
Would Obama go down as one of the greatest Presidents of All Time? I know a lot of this is hyperbole and hypothicals, but I seriously would like to hear you alls answers....
Ask me again in 2012.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:40 PM
 
450 posts, read 501,960 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign View Post
First of all.......Obama and Reagan are 2 different people with 2 very different ideologies, beliefs and backgrounds.
Second.....this is NOT the early 1980s and despite the recession and what its root cause was THEN........the same cannot be said if our economic state in THIS recession by any stretch of the imagination!
Reagan DID increase spending and mostly by building up the defense/military and prison industrial complexes.....along with continued advancement in computer technology.....the economy recovered rather quickly.
NONE of which are occuring under Obama.....just a sincere desire to see universal HC reform at a measley 1+ TRILLION, on top of the bailouts and BS "stimulus" and this jobless recovery garbage.
Billions more for the infinite quest for victory....or whatever might define it, over there in Afghani-land. Prolong the misery and spending of the Bush years some more......to secure and rebuild these nations at all cost.....one at a time, 'ya know?
Who needs help after we're done fixing Afghani-land?
Like a good neighbor......we'll be there, no matter how bad of shape America is in!
I agree with you that they are two people with two different ideologies BUT alot of the way they handled the issues in America are very similar so far. And that is the part where you are wrong
Reagan did much more spending than just on defense. There were government bailouts, government stimulus, taxes increases all during Reagan's first term.
Also the economy did not recover 'quickly" it did not begin recovery until 1984 (it did GREAT after that). And it took gov. bailouts, gov. spending to do it.

Reagan in his autobiography said his biggest regret was the debt he left the United States in.

Also I liken Obama pledge to fix healthcare (Trillion dollars+) with Reagan's defense spending (more than a trillion dollars too).

Why is it fine for Reagan to spend us into debt with defense spending (with no monetary benefit to Americans)
but not fine for Obama to spend similar amounts to fix one of American looming issues over the last decade (with arguably a huge financial benefit to Americans)????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:51 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,489,704 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign View Post
First of all.......Obama and Reagan are 2 different people with 2 very different ideologies, beliefs and backgrounds. Of course, one's White and one's Black
Second.....this is NOT the early 1980s and despite the recession and what its root cause was THEN........the same cannot be said if our economic state in THIS recession by any stretch of the imagination! Which is ALL Obama's fault, by the way!
Reagan DID increase spending and mostly by building up the defense/military and prison industrial complexes.....along with continued advancement in computer technology.....the economy recovered rather quickly. And this was ok because Reagan was spending money to imprison Black people
NONE of which are occuring under Obama.....just a sincere desire to see universal HC reform at a measley 1+ TRILLION, on top of the bailouts and BS "stimulus" and this jobless recovery garbage. Because we all know that Reagan could do no wrong and Obama is out to destroy America, I mean the audacity to try to provide healthcare service to the middle & lower classes. The nerve of some people.
Billions more for the infinite quest for victory....or whatever might define it, over there in Afghani-land. Prolong the misery and spending of the Bush years some more......to secure and rebuild these nations at all cost.....one at a time, 'ya know?
Who needs help after we're done fixing Afghani-land?
Like a good neighbor......we'll be there, no matter how bad of shape America is in!
The audacity of some people to compare Reagan and Obama
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,494 posts, read 33,228,746 times
Reputation: 7609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
no and to be fair to GOP, they didnt love bush either but bush was an obediant puppet to american business and DOD. an invasion of our country with cheap illegal labor 21, million, and a mideast invasion-- will get you 8 years in office, no problem.
a job well done mr bush.
Cheap illegal labor did not start with Pres. Bush. It had been going on for many years before he was pres.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 07:07 PM
 
450 posts, read 501,960 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
Not sure if that really counts, since TEFRA simply eliminated most of the original tax cuts (ERTA), bringing the net change to 0.



The railroads failed because government regulations prevented them from forming profitable networks, and required they provide extensive and prompt service, even if it meant riding 150 miles to deliver a single carload. There were no airline subsidies either, airlines were forced to serve every little dirt strip in the country regardless of profitability or ridership. Chrysler always fails, do they even need an excuse? You would think the issue with banks and the automakers would have been solved back then.



Clinton funded the Taliban, yet caught no to heat for it. Like Reagan his popularity got him out of a number of sticky situations.



So, where is the evidence that linked Reagan to Iran or the Contras? When was he charged? Impeached?



...Was it not Ted Kennedy that fathered that bill?



In the 80s and 90s economic expansion was fueled primarily by less government regulation and decline in oil prices. The latter will certainly never occur again in a post-9/11 world, so from this point forward I would not expect the economy to soar like it has in the past. Of course, unexpected things do happen, and if growth is at 8%+ for enough quarters like it was under Reagan I would warm up to Obama.



I forget which tax bill I you are referring to, but one of the latter ones cut or exempted all income taxes for the poor. The top earners had their chance with ERTA and failed to change the economic climate. Didn't the corporate tax rate go up somewhere in there?



I doubt Reagan would have the stones to do everything Reagan did, such as firing air traffic controllers on strike illegally..



Actually I have not bashed him yet.. I prefer to read the opinions of others and take a wait and see approach.



Ask me again in 2012.
Very honest answer Frankie, thanks. Let me respond to a few things though

1) YES the tax increases from TEFRA in 1982 eliminated many of the tax cuts from the early initiatives of Reaganomics (ERTA tax cuts, less spending that took effect in 1981).
But the tax increases went much farther than just that it increased taxes to higher levels than any point in American History (37 billion dollars a year).
Also the fact that he had to RAISE taxes to get out of the RECESSION that was created from his earlier policies. Shows that his early policy of tax cuts failed.
Because now the Government was hugely in debt, which raised inflation, causing job loses which began the Recession of 1982.
But again he did have to raise taxes and increase spending to fix the Recession.
Now that Obama wants to do the exact same thing he is getting bashed and hated for it.

2) I don't now much about WHY the railroad industry failed (I thought because of the Oil Crisis during the late 1970s, but I could be wrong). But again the Government still had to take over the Railroad (similar to how Obama had to takeover GM)
So they would not fail (and the Government to this day is successfully running this railroad industry called Amtrak)
Second again the reason WHY Chrysler needed bailing out is not my point. My point is Reagan's admin paid some of the loan that bailed out Chrysler and bailed out the Banks in mid-1980s.
Similar to how Obama bank bailouts, etc....
But again it falls back on that currently Obama is hated on for doing much of what Reagan did....

3) BY the way Reagan admitted to funding Contras (before it was outlawed by Congress after Nicaragua vs the United States court case) and during the Iran/Contra Scandal Reagan admitted to providing Arms to Iran in his Presidential Address after the scandal was discovered.
So to answer your question he would not be impeached or charged because he did nothing illegal, but again he still did those things (funding and provided arms to our enemies).
If Obama was to do the same to N. Korea and Iran now how would he be treated by Conservatives?

4) In regards to the Immigration no if I'm not mistaken Ted Kennedy had nothing to with this bill. It was a bipartisan bill that Reagan agreed with and signed.
But again what would happen to Obama if he did the same thing today?

Lastly I do appreciate your answers that you'd warm up to Obama if success was to come out of this (which most conservatives will not say or comprehend)

Last edited by y2flyy; 12-04-2009 at 07:18 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,515 posts, read 16,156,595 times
Reputation: 8079
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2flyy View Post
Lol dude no taxs what the hell are you talking about?
I love Reagan and how do you assume that I am not white?
LOL you didn't even attempt to answer the question
You said you were black in another thread.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top