Why can't YOU people admit, the Legacy of Slavery and Jim Crow still hinders this country? (parade, solution)

[diva360]

Originally Posted by Atilla

I still don't think she has a chip on her shoulder. And I don't think I disagree with you that much. I don't think she is using the past as an excuse.

What I am saying starts here:

What I am saying is that the past must be discussed in order to make sense of now. Nothing happens in a vacuum. I would say the same thing to white people. For example, if we really want to solve the problem of meth addiction in rural areas, we must make meth less attractive somehow. In my experience, kids of any age start taking drugs for three main and closely connected reasons: there is money to be made in the drug business, they are bored, and they realize that in the main, adults lie to them all the time. Another big factor is misery. People take drugs to feel better.

The result of all of this is a black market that encourages violence, and it is quite literally killing our children. All of us need to level with our children. (I don't have my own, but I work with other people's, and I see every day how they are screwed up). We need to get out of the business of literally protecting them to death. The ugliness of the world is plain to see. They got eyes--they can see it. It seems to me that some black children have the benefit of being raised by people who are at least honest with them--people who say, yes, racism exists, but here are some things you can do about it. My parents didn't tell me that, but I had eyes and could see it, so I sought out teachers and other adults who would tell me the truth. It didn't hurt. It made me want to not only live my life, but also to change things in the world. I picked a way to do that. There are other ways to do the same thing. I see that youngMJ and heaveno and others are picking up the torch. I don't see why they should be criticized for that. I applaud them. They will help others do the same when I'm dead and forgotten.

Just for clarification--this is where what atilla is saying starts. The above was me, diva360, in a previous exchange.

We have no strong disagreements. Again, I am not leveling criticism, I am offering incite from my perspective as a white man. Nobody repects a pity party. As a young man I joined the military and made a 4 year sacrifice for my country and my pay back was an education. Nobody handed me that on a grant, a scholorship, I stood on my own two feet, I made personal sacrifices.

It is further a week arguement to suppose that being black alone is a detriment to progress. The lack of education and will to elevate oneself is the biggest detriment.

Yes there will definately be barriers if you try to get a job as a professional and you can only speak eubonics. This is a cultural disadvantage. Not necessarily a disadvantage of race.
How do you think the Irish eventually gained acceptance even though they were despised in parallell form as were blacks in the history of this nation. I will tell you how, they enculturated. They did not set up barriers of segregation.
I am married to a woman of Japanese descent. She cannot speak as many Japanese words as I can, probably less than you. Her parents recognized that if they were to succeed in the culture they had to integrate into the culture. They would not allow the speaking of Japanese in the home.
There are lessons here. One does not have to erase their individuality to succeed. They had better recognize though, the importance of blending over the importance of standing out, unless the standing out points are conducive to the positive acceptance of the authorizing entity.[/quote]

This is where what I'm saying in response starts. The HTML coding got all screwed up for some reason:

I'm a white girl who has a Chinese-American boyfriend, so our situations in that sense are somewhat similar. I think the main differences between us are that you are more authoritarian than I am--in the sense of who gets to decide what, I am almost completely libertarian. I've got an advanced degree--some authorities decided I fulfilled the requirements for that degree.

But, in general, I don't think there is one standard judge of success in life. There are some situations where speaking "eubonics" (from here on out, AAVE) would be perfectly appropriate at work. Hell, I can pass for a reasonably fluent speaker of AAVE should the situation arise. AAVE is merely a dialect of English, linguists study it, and it is just like Appalachian English or any other kind of English in terms of it's relationship to the larger culture.

As far as my boyfriend goes, I think it is awesome that his grandmothers spoke Chinese in front of him as a child and he thus picked up Cantonese. He can tell you hilarious stories about being eight and figuring out that the biggest insult was basically saying "go f*** your mother." That is essentially the same ritual insult underlying AAVE. Playing the dozens is a version of that. (The literal translation in Chinese is "go pinch your mother's girly parts"). But white people do the same thing, though it is "go f*** yourself. For some reason, mothers are off limits. I think that reveals a certain uptightness about white womanhood that is peculiar to white people. That's just me, but I have seen its consequences in my own life.

In any case, I applaud the fact that my boyfriend was unintentionally exposed to grown women's gossip in his own kitchen. It gives him a perspective that makes him much more likely to reject hypocrisy that he otherwise might not have had. We share that in common, and the world's absurdity continuously provides us with comic material.

So anyway, the point of talking about the legacy of Jim Crow is simply this: let's stop BS-ing, please? Racism exists, as does exploitation on the basis of class. A scholarship or a grant is not a handout--it is earned through different means than one earns an education through military service. Neither one is inherently better than the other, though I do appreciate Attila's sacrifice. But, it paid off, right?

[pollyrobin]

Originally Posted by Atilla

How do you think the Irish eventually gained acceptance even though they were despised in parallel form as were blacks in the history of this nation. I will tell you how, they enculturated. They did not set up barriers of segregation.

It is laughable for you to compare the plight of Irish immigrants or any other immigrant group with the history of blacks in this country. Jim Crow Laws had nothing to do with assimilation to a culture. It was a deliberate attempt to keep a select group of citizens "down" in every way - socially, economically, and politically. Jim Crow laws were not removed until the mid 1960's.

[Atilla]

Originally Posted by Heaveno

I think you mentioned before about the educational track and the vocational one. There is something that is in all of us that we are good at and I do not believe-I just cannot fathom the thought that IQ prevents anyone from doing well. We have to seek out the gifts and talents in people and make use of them. They exist, truly they do. We need to expose people to different work venues and careers, so they can have an opportunity to find out what they are good at. They may struggle with their academics, but overall perseverance and knowing that others believe in you will triumphs any thoughts of failures. I have to believe this. Please do not call it wishful thinking , because I have had the opportunity to tap into these gifts and talents and have seen people basically discover what they are capable of doing which at the very least will afford them a decent salary to afford the basic things that we all should be content with in this life.

That madam is a great attitude. Self sufficiency, acceptance by the ones we love, and personal self esteem are all integral parts of arriving at self actualizaton and even the spiritual and material things in life that make us comfortable. It is that which embodies life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You will note that no one carries the promise of happiness, ony the pursuit. The finding is within the individual and the individual only.

[Heaveno]

Originally Posted by Atilla

Madam, I think I see a reasonable person in you and that in the long run of things, those of our like color, we can learn from one another.

We surely can Atilla. Inquiring knowledge or learning from others is a daily need for me, but my learning from others does not indicate that I will always agree with the teachings. On that note I need to go see some students for about three hours now and help them learn how to read better.

[diva360]

Originally Posted by Houston3

I've never seen a black persons isle in Walmart for a black persons bath soap and hair shampoo....What's it close to?

You gotta be shopping in a place with a black clientele. If you're in suburban Houston, your HEB or Walmart may not have such products. Wait, HEB may not even be in Houston--if not, sorry. It's a San Antonio and Austin grocery store. Here's a link to some of the products I am talking about, which are widely available in Targets and other stores here, where I now live, in the NE:

Ultra Black Hair Growth - black hair products and the truth about black hair care needs

"Going natural," or wearing an Afro, was partly a political statement in the 1960s because it represented a refusal of straightening phenotypically black hair. I don't know this from personal experience--slightly wavy hair grows out of my own white head. But I have read enough literature and history and am friends with enough black people to know that the matter of hair care for black people is both complicated and fraught with history and meaning. Some black men go to the barbershop weekly to maintain a clean, sharp look. Some black women get their hair highly processed to gete the look they want. Others do braids or dreads, others make other choices. All of these choices involve products that aren't made by brands like Suave. (Perhaps Suave has a line of black hair-care products, I don't know).

[Huckleberry3911948]

re the OP --- "cripple and kill" is a detroit speciality and jim crow is nowhere to be found.
resentment is like taking poison and expecting somebody else to die.
rev jessie jackson who speaks for dr king, has said all there is to say on AA hatred.
leave 1862 to those who lived it, they did a much better job of handling resentment than those here now.

[youngMichaelJackson]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

cripple and kill is a detroit speciality and jim crow is nowhere to be found.
resentment is like taking poison and expecting somebody else to die.
rev jessie jackson has said all there is to say on AA hatred.
leave 1862 to those who lived it, they did a much better job of handleing resentment than those here now.

Jesse Jackson is corporate pimp, he is not a black leader. The only people who think he speaks for blacks are those that dont know any black people personally and form all of their opinions from what they see on TV.

[Huckleberry3911948]

Originally Posted by youngMichaelJackson

Jesse Jackson is corporate pimp, he is not a black leader. The only people who think he speaks for blacks are those that dont know any black people personally and form all of their opinions from what they see on TV.

you assume much my friend and if dr king could hear you speak of his personal aides in such a manner i know what he would say to you. a culture of hatred and disrespect that needs badly to change. i used to think it was just the silly whites that wallowed in self hatred, i was mistaken.
signed
a non white

[diva360]

Originally Posted by youngMichaelJackson

Jesse Jackson is corporate pimp, he is not a black leader. The only people who think he speaks for blacks are those that dont know any black people personally and form all of their opinions from what they see on TV.

Yes, and Detroit's problems were also caused by the decline in manufacturing jobs in the 1970s. That problem stretches East from Michigan to New York and South to Ohio and Pennsylvania--that's why that region is often called the "rust belt." This is described in numerous examples of pop culture. Billy Joel's "Allentown" comes to mind, for example. Numerous Bruce Springsteen songs also take this phenomenon as a theme.

[youngMichaelJackson]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

you assume much my friend and if dr king could hear you speak of his personal aides in such a manner i know what he would say to you.

Once again Jesse Jackson is a corporate pimp, if you look at the deeds for his houses, cars, and his other property, none of them are in his name. Guess who buy's Jesse and Al Sharpton their houses, cars, etc????? Why the corporations they go after . Al Sharpton has a 2007 Lexus LS 460 right now that was bought for him by the parent company of Pawn America, which is a title loan company. After he went on the national media and a big fuss about them doing title loans in the black community, they basically bought him the car to make him shut up. That’s their hustle; they use racism as a guise for their own personal gain and go after specific organizations, agencies and companies, knowing full well the unwanted attention will result in them getting paid or getting a “gift” from those aforementioned companies. I know this because I personally know the individual who used to be Jesse Jackson’s assistant, and she quit and left a lucrative salary because she realized what Jesse and Al Sharpton were doing. Unlike you I actually look at everything from an unbiased perspective, and myself being black will not prevent me from calling Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton out on their bullshlit. Like I said, the only people who think Jesse and Al are black leaders are white people who don’t actually know any black people, and I think you just proved my point. Most blacks see them for what they are, and they are anything but leaders. I saw Jesse in the airport one time and the only people coming up to him and asking him for pictures and autographs were Asians and whites.