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Old 12-10-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,661,760 times
Reputation: 5131

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
You are right people heard the word change so much it got to the point thats all they heard. That and 95% tax cut and they didnt realize there was other ways for Obama to increase their taxes. They only thought about income taxes
People think that unless it's officially called a "tax", then it isn't really a tax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
The banking crisis of today was caused by Deregulation - just as it was deregulation that caused the Savings and Loan Failures of 1980's - both happening under a Republican Presidency. It was caused by Bank's lax lending standards, deregulation of the global credit market and Bank's predatory lending practices.

Although there has been deregulation and regulation of Banks since the 1930's, this particular "Crash" had nothing to do with regulations or lending practices of the 1970's.

It had all to do with the blatant incompetency of the Bush Jr Administration. Sorry - this one can't be pinned down to anyone else.
Looks like you might need to review your history, and take your blinders off when you do.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:16 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,002,733 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
People think that unless it's officially called a "tax", then it isn't really a tax.



Looks like you might need to review your history, and take your blinders off when you do.
I only give credit where credit is due - simply to try to spin regulations from the 1970's to explain the crash in 2000's is just that - a spin.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:32 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,002,733 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbone View Post
We were told that the sky was falling and if we didn't support the stimulus packages then disaster would occur. The bottom line is that a stimulus package is not a stimulus package but rather a trojan horse disguising what it really is, which is a tax increase.
"borrowed money" will have to be paid back(plus interest) and the only way to do that is increase taxes.
Yes, the public has been hoodwinked.

Funny, we were also told by the Bush Administration that if we didn't support the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, disaster would occur. A Trojan horse disguising what it really is: occupation and nation building. Now Obama is continuing the same thing. Yes, the public has been hoodwinked.

Who is going to pay for this - we simply can't afford it. War Tax?

James Madison said it best:

- All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree

-Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other generations.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Keonsha, Wisconsin
2,479 posts, read 3,229,973 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
1 Obama already increased taxes on smokers none of them earn less then 250K

lol @ Biggest tax cut in history. Obama gave out tax credits NOT a tax cut. My husband is so grateful for that extra 3.00 in his check. Let me tell ya

There is many new taxes in this healthcare bill alone, you really should research that, How do you think they are going to raise money to pay for this trillion dollar bill?
Ahhh, you'd if they hung you with a new rope, stop whining.
Now if you folks want to see a real genuine LIAR, here's one for ya!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9_kkzfN-w

Talk about hoodwink, he was a master at it!

We libs are beginning to think you republicans are a pack of whiners, jeez.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Keonsha, Wisconsin
2,479 posts, read 3,229,973 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
The banking crisis of today was caused by Deregulation - just as it was deregulation that caused the Savings and Loan Failures of 1980's - both happening under a Republican Presidency. It was caused by Bank's lax lending standards, deregulation of the global credit market and Bank's predatory lending practices.

Although there has been deregulation and regulation of Banks since the 1930's, this particular "Crash" had nothing to do with regulations or lending practices of the 1970's.

It had all to do with the blatant incompetency of the Bush Jr Administration. Sorry - this one can't be pinned down to anyone else.
The Bush Legacy Tour | The Legacy of President George W. Bush
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,661,760 times
Reputation: 5131
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
The banking crisis of today was caused by Deregulation - just as it was deregulation that caused the Savings and Loan Failures of 1980's - both happening under a Republican Presidency. It was caused by Bank's lax lending standards, deregulation of the global credit market and Bank's predatory lending practices.

Although there has been deregulation and regulation of Banks since the 1930's, this particular "Crash" had nothing to do with regulations or lending practices of the 1970's.

It had all to do with the blatant incompetency of the Bush Jr Administration. Sorry - this one can't be pinned down to anyone else.
Let's take a look at Fannie Mae’s Patron Saint – Barney Frank - and see if we can't pin a great deal of this on him. It's not too hard, because this is just a tip of the iceberg:

“Mr. Frank wants you to pick up the tab for its failures, while he still vows to block a reform that might prevent the same disaster from happening again. For a decade, he strongly opposedt reforming the two companies. The first concerted push to rein in Fannie and Freddie in Congress came as far back as 1992" and Mr. Frank was right there opposing every move.

In 2000, then-Rep. Richard Baker proposed a bill to reform Fannie and Freddie's oversight. Mr. Frank dismissed the idea, saying concerns about the two were "overblown" and that there was "no federal liability there whatsoever."

Two years later, Mr. Frank was at it again. "I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems," he said in response to another reform push. "I regard them as great assets." (Of course he does...read on.)

A month later, when Freddie Mac's accounting mess hit the fan, Barney Frank insisted, "I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis."

Why the staunch defense of Fannie and Freddie? Perhaps the "affordable housing" trust fund he managed to put in place which “siphons off a portion of Fannie and Freddie profits -- as much as $500 million a year each -- to a fund that politicians can then disburse to their favorite special interests.”

Fannie Mae's Patron Saint - WSJ.com
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:31 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
You are in deep too.
No, unlike most right-wing hacks, I'm in a position to know what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
You know those 'saved or gained' job numbers are inaccurate/fudged and unemployment climbed well beyond the 8%....stimulus was supposed to stop that from happening.
Well, that's two failed statements in one sentence. First, the job numbers on recovery.gov were put there by contractors, not by the administration, and those numbers play no role at all in the actual estimates of jobs saved and created. Second, Obama was talking last January about confronting double-digit unemployment, and there was certainly no promise that unemployment would not go above 8% if the stimulus were passed. That's simply a right-wing lie made up from a projection showing that unemployment would peak earlier and at a lower level with a stimulus bill than without one. The scale on the graphic representation of that effect was determined by the unemployment rate at the time, which was 6.7%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Stimulus was predicted to create 3.5 million jobs...that's about how many have been lost since it was enacted.
Increase in unemployment since February has been about 3.1 million. Would have been above 4.1 million without the stimulus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
The OA top economic advisers have said it's already done all it will do (not that it did what it was designed to do) and that any further recovery will depend on the private sector.
No, that's not at all what she said. What she said is that the front-loaded FISCAL stimulus (tax cuts and tax cut equivalents) would have their maximum impacts in the second and third quarters of this year, but that the rest of the stimulus bill would continue to drive GDP to a level above the level that would have resulted without the stimulus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
...yet O is out there talking about a second stimulus...spending the TARP money. If he couldn't get the job done with the first TRILLION dollars I don't think we should throw more money at it.
I'm sure you said the same thing about Iraq. And probably the 2003 Bushie tax cuts for the rich as well. Meanwhile, jobs are about the last thing to bounce back in a recovery, and finding quick ways to get more people earning a paycheck until that happens is hardly a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Maybe he should try real tax cuts, more than the $65 a month.
Those piddly amounts add up to $116 billion overall. Piddly to you, not to the economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Most people are still saving and paying down debt, lessening their risk....there's way too much uncertainty for us to be fooled into thinking things are fine now and we should get back to life as usual.
Rational for the perhaps 30-35% of the population that either is unemployed or has some rational reason to suspect that they might become unemployed. Not rational at all for the other 65-70%. Keeping up with the PennyPinchers is not at all a helpful strategy at this point.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:47 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Let's take a look at Fannie Mae’s Patron Saint – Barney Frank - and see if we can't pin a great deal of this on him. It's not too hard, because this is just a tip of the iceberg:
Fiction pumped into the minds of those who were paying no attention at all at the time. Those Republican GSE reform efforts were designed to do one thing and one thing only: shrink the GSE share of the profitable secondary mortgage markets so that their conniving friends on Wall Street (the ones who actually were responsible for the economic collapse) could have themselves a bigger piece of the pie to play with. In 2003 in fact, the Senate had voted a GSE reform package out of committee dealing with safety and soundness issues, and in the House, Barney Frank and Michael Oxley were agreed on a package quite close to that of the Senate. A deal could have been reached, but the effort was scuttled by the White House which insisted on program limiting language.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:50 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,082,097 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
No, unlike most right-wing hacks, I'm in a position to know what I'm talking about.


Well, that's two failed statements in one sentence. First, the job numbers on recovery.gov were put there by contractors, not by the administration, and those numbers play no role at all in the actual estimates of jobs saved and created. Second, Obama was talking last January about confronting double-digit unemployment, and there was certainly no promise that unemployment would not go above 8% if the stimulus were passed. That's simply a right-wing lie made up from a projection showing that unemployment would peak earlier and at a lower level with a stimulus bill than without one. The scale on the graphic representation of that effect was determined by the unemployment rate at the time, which was 6.7%.


Increase in unemployment since February has been about 3.1 million. Would have been above 4.1 million without the stimulus.


No, that's not at all what she said. What she said is that the front-loaded FISCAL stimulus (tax cuts and tax cut equivalents) would have their maximum impacts in the second and third quarters of this year, but that the rest of the stimulus bill would continue to drive GDP to a level above the level that would have resulted without the stimulus.


I'm sure you said the same thing about Iraq. And probably the 2003 Bushie tax cuts for the rich as well. Meanwhile, jobs are about the last thing to bounce back in a recovery, and finding quick ways to get more people earning a paycheck until that happens is hardly a bad idea.


Those piddly amounts add up to $116 billion overall. Piddly to you, not to the economy.


Rational for the perhaps 30-35% of the population that either is unemployed or has some rational reason to suspect that they might become unemployed. Not rational at all for the other 65-70%. Keeping up with the PennyPinchers is not at all a helpful strategy at this point.
It's so terribly easy to debunk your paid-to-post tripe. I didn't even read the rest of your post because I knew the bolded part was a bunch of bullschit. Why should I read further when you can't even get the most basic of points right?

Here, try this on for size. Notice how there is no talk of "double-digit unemployment" by this Administration. Also, notice how Obama thought unemployment would only "slightly" exceed 8%. And most importantly, notice how this didn't come from a "right wing" lie.

Unemployment Targeted At 8% - Econwatch - CBS News

You don't realize how stupid you look posting this nonsense do you?
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:59 PM
 
Location: South Fla
9,644 posts, read 9,829,756 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57 View Post
Ahhh, you'd if they hung you with a new rope, stop whining.
Now if you folks want to see a real genuine LIAR, here's one for ya!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9_kkzfN-w

Talk about hoodwink, he was a master at it!

We libs are beginning to think you republicans are a pack of whiners, jeez.
Yep Both Bush Sr and Obama lied about not increasing taxes. Now what?

Difference in you and I. I can admit both parties stink and lie etc etc etc unlike you that appears to think its only republicans or think its only important to call out republicans

Enough of this R Vs D junk you all are ruining this country fighting a silly fight with each other. The longer people like you continue this democrat great republican bad the worse our problems get
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