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Old 12-09-2009, 03:14 PM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,886,109 times
Reputation: 4459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
What part of the failing housing and banking industries that required government bail-out don't you understand?
You guys are whining about your jobs and how you're losing them, yet don't expect the private industries to take any responsibility.
How many of you protect the CEOs robbing the industries blind?
i certainly am not protecting the CEOs. i would like to see some prosecutions but it seems that the GOVERNMENT IS UNWILLING TO EITHER PROSECUTE, STOP THE BONUSES, OR CHANGE THE RULES.

as a matter of fact, i just read something about the pay czar worrying that smaller bonuses wouldn't draw the huge "talent" that is out there... i have no idea what he thinks of as "talent".
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,278,891 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Degrees and awards don't make you smart. They just mean you do well in school, and people that think like you give you awards. Never said I had a PhD - not sure where that's coming from.
And yet you belittle people that are TRAINED in economics - that have made the study of that field their CAREER. When you can show that you have the background and experience to outshine those folks THEN you can make a legitimate claim that you know more than they. Until then, you are just blowing hot air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
The GDP was up one quarter - that's hardly a rally. Job losses are down SLIGHTLY for one month, but it's still at 10% - hardly prosperity. Stock prices have nothing to do with the economy. Home prices stabilizing because of the homebuyer credit - stabilizing isn't gain.
The GDP may have only been positive for 1 quarter, but the TREND has been improving for 6 months (2 quarters) - after bottoming out in the first quarter at -6.0%, then rising so that the drop was merely -0.7% in the second quarter, then rising to 2.8%

Job losses have been shrinking since March - which had 700,000+ job losses. Since then every single month (except 1) had a decrease in job losses - and last month it was nearly a break even.

Stock prices do indeed have everything to do with the economy. They reflect the general health of business.

Home prices are not merely stable - they are rising in much of the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
We'll just have to agree to disagree. You see things from a "government is the answer" mentality. I see things from a "we all need to take personal responsibility" mentality. One is the American way, the other the "red" way.
Yeah right! - the "American" way - what a load of BS.
When all else fails - wrap yourself in the flag.
"patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson April 7th, 1775

Ken
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:26 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,928,755 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichele View Post
What? Didn't we just bail out Wall Street, aka the private sector? Where do you think that money came from? Who do you think will pay it back?
The Bailout is not "every company" and the fact that the government bailed them out is in my opinion stupid, but... that was not my point. If you would like to pick a specific bailed out company and contest with that, I doubt I would disagree other than on simply semantics because I disagreed with the bailout in the first place.

That said, because the bailed out wall street, does not make all private companies government funded organizations.
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:31 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,928,755 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Using your logic, the problems in private industry are not the government's fault therefore your comments should have nothing to do with the government.
Why do you want the government to make up for the "free market" industries that have made a shambles of the economy?

Where is the government doing poorly? Some examples would be great.
Every company is responsible for the bad economy? Or is it more specific ones and do those companies have a lot of dealings with the government that may have "helped" this about?

You are cherry picking what I stated. Private companies are private, when government bails them out... well... not so private anymore now are they? Also, due to the very demands you are making, this is why many are sending back that money as fast as they can. They want to retain their freedom and it is the companies to which are not sucking at the teat of the government to which I am speaking of.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:20 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
This is both correct and incorrect.
Isn't everything...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
The really big incorrect part is:
A federal worker does or does not get a pay raise.
A federal retiree does or does not get a COLA.
I've been both a federal worker and now a federal retiree, and I can tell you for a fact, it is absolutely wrong to think that the pay raise that federal workers are getting in 2010 is a COLA. People who use the "pay raise" and "COLA" interchangeably are simply wrong.
That's all correct, but federal workers get actual pay raises as the result of promotions and pay-for-performance and other quality increases (plus bonuses in some cases, but those are one-time deals).

Both the annual pay raise adjustment discussed here and the locality pay differentials that typically come with it are based on the Employment Cost Index rather than the Consumer Price Index, but as the ECI is nominal, it includes all CPI increases that have been incorporated into wages and other compensation in most non-federal employment across the nation. On this account, and because the President and/or Congress have annually trimmed the actual ECI-based increase to something more in the range of the annual CPI increase, the adjustment is often thought of and refered to as being a COLA, even though in a technical sense it is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
And the two COLAs - Social Security and federal retiree - are based on the same calculation. In 2010, as a federal retiree, I get no COLA, just as my neighbor, as a Social Security retiree, gets no COLA.
Right, SS and both CSRS and FERS federal retirees are on the same basis. By contrast, those covered by FECA are on a December-to-December basis, so they will get a raise of something like 3.0% starting in April 2010. But in April 2009, they got a raise of $1, the legal minimum.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:30 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
So when we are running in the red should people really be getting a raise? No they shouldnt. If your company/Gov is running in the red NO ONE should get a raise. Really shouldnt get one when the cost of living hasnt increased
The country has been in the red since its founding. We got pretty close to being debt-free in 1836, but we haven't been anywhere near it since. Do you really expect our troops and their families to be able to get by on 1791 salaries??? Here's a better idea. Debt is an ordinary part of doing business. Get used to it...
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:43 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
They are getting a raise at the cost of someone else losing their job and thats a fact.
No, it's not a fact...it's confused and befuddled gibberish. Cancelling these scheduled federal pay raises would not mean that anyone anywhere would be newly hired, pulled back from layoff, or put back to full-time from part-time. It would simply mean that federal workers didn't get a pay raise. If they do get those pay raises on the other hand, they will spend the money, thereby creating demand, and it is demand that actually WILL cause people to be newly hired, pulled back from layoff, or put back to full-time from part-time. In essence, you are asking that people be laid off or fired just so you can enjoy your persoanl little moment of pi$$ing on all those federal employees whom you resent so much. Aren't you the admirable one...
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:56 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
To be fair, the postal service gets no tax dollars to operate. None.
USPS is supposed to receive annual payments to cover the costs of free mail for the blind and cost-free absentee voting from overseas, each of which is still mandated by Congress, but Congress doesn't always find a way to get around to making payment for those services somehow. USPS has otherwise not been taxpayer-supported for more than 25 years...
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:16 PM
 
69 posts, read 35,980 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by free_food View Post
They really do more than push paper, but for the federal government to give raises while so many are out of work..... Can you see the problem with this?

BTW, I work with federal employees on a daily basis. Most of them have really bad attitudes.
I work for the state government. They have bad attitudes as well. *not me though. *, but we haven\'t gotten our contracted raises for 2 years, 3 in July 2010. I consider it taking part in the mess, unlike Washington.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:21 PM
 
69 posts, read 35,980 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
I work in federal management and fiscal planning.
You apparently don\'t.
Unless you\'re familiar with the subject you bring up, you might want to sit on your hands instead of looking ignorant of the facts and business management of the government.

Why are you trying to force a \"for profit\" model on a not-for-profit government entity.
We run by different rules.

The biggest problems in this economy are not from the government but from greed and the housing and banking industries.

Easier to blame, I suppose.
I work for the government too, I don\'t share your views. I think it is the most wasteful and lazy place I\'ve ever seen. I can and do work circles around every single person I come across in my day to day activities within the govt. There\'s a few that do the right thing like I do, but most are there to do as little as possible and get a promotion.

BTW, Where\'s the responsibility in the raise when everyone else is suffering? How about the philosophy of \"pitching in\"?
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