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Old 12-17-2009, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,989 posts, read 5,578,566 times
Reputation: 3240

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Let me get this straight...

Federal and State governments are selling high speed rail as an economic panacea.

Estimates for California are $43 billion
The Buzz: California high-speed rail estimate jumps $9 billion - Sacramento Politics - California Politics | Sacramento Bee (http://www.sacbee.com/capitolandcalifornia/story/2395807.html - broken link)

For the Midwest it is $69 billion
High-speed rail's price tag doubles | Crain's Chicago Business

Of the stimulus, $8 billion of the $787 billion is earmarked for high speed rail (with proposals of $102 billion submitted)
Transportation For America » States clamor for high-speed rail stimulus funds as applications pour into DC

Yet...only $7 bln to update high speed internet, in a country which is now sporting third-world through put on its networks?
The Associated Press: Government to award stimulus funds for broadband

Top 30 countries ranked by fastest internet speeds | Jamaipanese

JaysTech: Top 10 Countries with Fastest Internet Speed

And people wonder why we are faced such heated competition from Asia and parts of Europe? How Byzantine! What's next? Government revival of the steam engine?

Fix our roads and airports. They are increasingly third world. Develop super high speed internet in the urban clusters, which will have the effect of reducing density and traffic gridlock. And above all else, end once and for all this idea of trying to fit in with the Europeans on national transportation policy.

I have never seen an administration so positively childish and naive with respect to how the world actually works.

S.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 10,254,342 times
Reputation: 2992
Post I Favor HS Rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
Let me get this straight...

Federal and State governments are selling high speed rail as an economic panacea.

Estimates for California are $43 billion
The Buzz: California high-speed rail estimate jumps $9 billion - Sacramento Politics - California Politics | Sacramento Bee (http://www.sacbee.com/capitolandcalifornia/story/2395807.html - broken link)

For the Midwest it is $69 billion
High-speed rail's price tag doubles | Crain's Chicago Business

Of the stimulus, $8 billion of the $787 billion is earmarked for high speed rail (with proposals of $102 billion submitted)
Transportation For America » States clamor for high-speed rail stimulus funds as applications pour into DC

Yet...only $7 bln to update high speed internet, in a country which is now sporting third-world through put on its networks?
The Associated Press: Government to award stimulus funds for broadband
Those numbers are quite misleading. It should be obvious that laying high-speed rail lines, switches, control systems, road crossings, overpasses, tunnels, etc. costs much more than laying fiber-optic cable. You must state spending as a % of existing systems rather than raw numbers compared to each other. It's apples to oranges otherwise and your data is useless in terms of making a well-reasoned argument. For all we know, 7BN might triple our telecom capabilities while the 8BN earmarked for rail may be 0.01% of the existing rail capabilities.

Quote:
Top 30 countries ranked by fastest internet speeds | Jamaipanese

JaysTech: Top 10 Countries with Fastest Internet Speed

And people wonder why we are faced such heated competition from Asia and parts of Europe? How Byzantine! What's next? Government revival of the steam engine?
Travel the world and you will see that the US, AUS, and CAN are the only large 1st-world countries without a well-functioning HS rail system AND quality freeways.

Quote:
Fix our roads and airports. They are increasingly third world. Develop super high speed internet in the urban clusters, which will have the effect of reducing density and traffic gridlock. And above all else, end once and for all this idea of trying to fit in with the Europeans on national transportation policy.
Evidence? Travel the the roadways in the developing world (I would say 2nd world) in places such as Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and China and you will find that the US freeway and airport system exceeds them all.

I would disagree that being in "the wired" reduces density, as some of the most wired nations on Earth still have a large number of working commuters and their urban centers have not decreased in density. Instead, they have managed to implement working commuter rail systems, maintain highway systems, and implement high-speed internet all at once. Our nations low density areas makes this a challenging prospect for, say, Omaha, but certainly doable in the SF-SAC-LV-LA-SD, BOS-NY-DC, and MINN-CHI-IND, regions. [/quote]

Quote:
I have never seen an administration so positively childish and naive with respect to how the world actually works.
S.
Perhaps it's your perspective that causes you to see things this way, rather than how the world actually is.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Southeast
4,296 posts, read 6,483,398 times
Reputation: 1446
High speed rail takes approximately $8-$11 billion per mile to lay on average. Compare that to $25-$35 million to pave brand new Interstates, and $15-$20 million per mile to add an additional lane to existing thoroughfares. Costs may vary depending on region, but overall Interstates and other divided highways cost far more than high speed rail. The stimulus money devoted to high speed rail is misleading since no new rails will be laid, and only existing tracks will be upgraded. High speed rail in other countries can reach 250mph+, compared to an average of 60mph on American rails and 120mph on the Northeast Corridor. Even the Midwest transportation plan does not come anywhere close to 'high speed'.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:44 AM
 
31,371 posts, read 33,547,078 times
Reputation: 14926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post

And people wonder why we are faced such heated competition from Asia and parts of Europe? How Byzantine! What's next? Government revival of the steam engine?
I find these sorts of comments to be truly bizarre, first the OP castigates the administration for pushing to develop high speed rail service. The the OP argues that pursuing such rail services is an example of why we cannot compete with Asia or Europe, the very two areas who have spent billions on the developing high speed rail service???
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
16,347 posts, read 19,254,164 times
Reputation: 8763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
High speed rail takes approximately $8-$11 billion per mile to lay on average. Compare that to $25-$35 million to pave brand new Interstates, and $15-$20 million per mile to add an additional lane to existing thoroughfares. Costs may vary depending on region, but overall Interstates and other divided highways cost far more than high speed rail. The stimulus money devoted to high speed rail is misleading since no new rails will be laid, and only existing tracks will be upgraded. High speed rail in other countries can reach 250mph+, compared to an average of 60mph on American rails and 120mph on the Northeast Corridor. Even the Midwest transportation plan does not come anywhere close to 'high speed'.
Did you mean "million"?
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