Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I lack the same blind trust in the nameless faces in government that you possess.
Do you trust the industries currently nationalized (socialized) in the US? Namely the military, fire, and police?
Personally, I do (generally, nothing's perfect), and I would have no problem having our government administer payment for health care. I'd be markedly better than the truly dumbfounding way we run health care now.
Yes, we're all just big government thugs trying to takeover and destroy all private industry, especially all those poor innocent insurance companies who all make their well earned profits off of killing and bankrupting their own customers. I mean, isn't playing God with other people's lives for money a valid form of entrepreneurship?
It can't possibly be because we want all Americans to have access to affordable quality health care that won't leave them for dead whenever they get sick or injured. Or that we don't want the government to force millions to buy an expensive service they cannot possibly afford, effectively rendering us all slaves to the insurance industry, no. It has to be because we want the government to destroy all private businesses and control everything, right.
Thanks for the over the top rhetoric.
We can lower the costs of health care, broaden coverage and make the health care system more efficient without throwing up our hands and asking the federal government to take over control.
At least with a free system, if an insurance company, or health care provider is not playing by the rules, or does not have my interest at heart, or will not cover my medical condition or process my claim, I can leave them and choose a better company, or lobby for better regulation and increased competition, or in a worst case scenario, I can sue them. But when government runs a single payer public insurance, I cannot choose a different policy, move to a different state for a more friendly set of insurance regulations, or change companies, because at that point there will only be the government in control, from coast to coast and sea to shining sea.
If the nameless, faceless people in charge of the public option want to cut costs by cutting services, or increasing funding, instead of reducing waste, fraud and abuse, all we can do is sit and take it up the tail pipe.
Sorry, but I do not have blind trust in a single unelected, unaccountable entity to decide for me what is in my best interest.
The problem with any government run healthcare system (I for one believe a public option will eventually lead to a national healthcare system) is inefficiency and lack of motivation.
Look how VA hospitals are run. You basically have people who work from 7AM-3PM. That's it. Go visit most VA hospital wards after 3-4PM. "Elective surgeries are not scheduled after 3-4PM". In most private hospitals they schedule elective surgeries even at 6PM on weekday and on Saturdays. Have you every looked at a VA surgery schedule for the weekend? They are non-existant except for major medical emergencies. Private hospital run elective procedures all day, and almost most of the day on Saturdays. I am a medical professional who've been affliated with the VA system before. I've been involved in private systems as well so I know a few things how these health systems work.
Look what people want is to have their cake and eat it to. So you want to keep your private insurance. But you want a public option for those who are out of the health system (whether they can't afford it or have preexisiting conditions).
The thing that bugs me most about the liberal public option movement is that they are unwilling to make sacrifices themselves. They want the public option but don't want to be taxed on it. That's the hypocrity of most liberals (I said most, not all). They want to do some holistic good but when it affects their bottom line, they don't want to pay for it. For those who eventually support a single payer system, they want to be able to see their current private doctor. Sorry, but that doesn't work in a single payer system. The government will select which doctors are "in your available location". And yes their will be rationing of care (just like the VA system). You won't get those elective procedures at the time you want. You will have to want unless it's a true emergency.
Do you trust the industries currently nationalized (socialized) in the US? Namely the military, fire, and police?
Personally, I do (generally, nothing's perfect), and I would have no problem having our government administer payment for health care. I'd be markedly better than the truly dumbfounding way we run health care now.
You named the few government services that most everyone can agree on, and accept for the military, those public service departments are controlled by city, county and the states, not the federal government.
You named the few government services that most everyone can agree on, and accept for the military, those public service departments are controlled by city, county and the states, not the federal government.
I'd go for just a minimal set of umbrella federal regulations under which each state individually ran it's own "public option", single-payer type health care system. I'm not sure how that would work practically - where the revenue would come from, etc - but in principle I like the idea.
I just also wanted to say that whether its a mostly private insurance system with an opt-in public option, or a completely nationalized public option that covers everyone, there's no exclusion of a private option. Even in a really nationalized system like England where not only is the insurance side socialized, but the care side as well (most doctors are trained by and employees of the government), anyone can see private doctors or even buy additional private insurance if they're not happy with the benefits the government provides.
Last edited by denverkid; 12-18-2009 at 05:05 PM..
Herein lies the problem. If the majority of the American people are in favor of a public option or single payer, why aren't their representatives listening and voting for their constituencies demands? The reason is that they would prefer to lose support of the public by way of votes than the $$$$ that the corporations are showering them with. This is insane and until we have campaign finance reform, we will never again have a true democracy. You do not call a nation a democracy if the corporations are making the decisions as opposed to the people...you call it Corporate Fascism and that is where we are now.
I totally agree with this post. I tried to give you a positive rep. I would if I could, good post.
We can lower the costs of health care, broaden coverage and make the health care system more efficient without throwing up our hands and asking the federal government to take over control.
At least with a free system, if an insurance company, or health care provider is not playing by the rules, or does not have my interest at heart, or will not cover my medical condition or process my claim, I can leave them and choose a better company, or lobby for better regulation and increased competition, or in a worst case scenario, I can sue them. But when government runs a single payer public insurance, I cannot choose a different policy, move to a different state for a more friendly set of insurance regulations, or change companies, because at that point there will only be the government in control, from coast to coast and sea to shining sea.
If the nameless, faceless people in charge of the public option want to cut costs by cutting services, or increasing funding, instead of reducing waste, fraud and abuse, all we can do is sit and take it up the tail pipe.
Sorry, but I do not have blind trust in a single unelected, unaccountable entity to decide for me what is in my best interest.
What? When the insurance companies don't play by the rules, it means their customers are forced to go bankrupt, homeless, and/or die. And they're free to do this because by the time the courts finally rule on the case, assuming the patients sue, the patient may very well already have died from their ailment. This is how they make their money. And there's no point in switching companies, because they're all the same. They all operate the same way.
Approximately 45,000 people die each single year either because they can't afford health insurance to begin with, or because those insurance companies found a bull**** excuse to rescind their coverage.
We need the public option because it would give us a cheaper alternative, give the insurance companies an incentive to lower their rates and may be hopefully NOT refuse claims, and provide those of us who are morally opposed to these lying murderers an alternative.
Now that the PO is dead, it means if this abomination of a bill passes, we'll forced by law to buy a service from a private industry that many of us simply cannot afford. A public option would've prevented that, but nope. The insurance companies win. They get our money, no competition, no measures to limit how much they can charge us, and nothing to stop them from still denying claims.
WASHINGTON – The liberal group MoveOn.org is opposing the Senate health care bill and urging Democrats to block it.
In a letter to members Friday, MoveOn.org complained that the legislation has no government-run insurance option and no expansion of Medicare.
They must be in the pocket of big insurance or big Pharma. Isn't that the only reason to object to this pile of manure?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
