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Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,833,234 times
Reputation: 6438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave
He isn't make sex a crime. He's making pregnancy a crime. On my second ship, we had women who decided they hated life on a ship and used pregnancy as a legal means to get off the ship. Thanks Bill and Hillary. I really enjoyed standing watch 6 hours on and 6 hours off in the engine room while putting in a full work day because we were short handed due to a woman who didn't want to do the job she volunteered for. I hope they convict those women in military court cause they won't get any sympathy from this former Navy sailor. Their pregnancy is no better than running away to Canada.
Can you acidently run to Canada?
Can you accidently get pregant?
The answer is no. No one has ever accidently become pregnant. And no one, ever, has accidently ran to Canada.
Both deserve jail time, beatings, and to fbe orced to do cruel and unusual pushups.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,833,234 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u
You put men and women in the same army and this is what you will get all day long. The military is so stupid they think thay can regulate against human nature. LOL. Thay would do better to just pass out condoms.
I know when I was in, you could go to the hospital in Japan and Korea and there was always a nice big box of condoms in the waiting area. There were three boxes, actually. Large, medium, and small. Small one was always full. Large one was always pretty much empty. I think that says something about human nature. Or perhaps, ego.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34524436...news-military/
A U.S. general in Iraq who listed pregnancy as a reason for court-martialing soldiers said Tuesday that he would never actually seek to jail someone over the offense, but wanted to underline the seriousness of the issue.
Last month, Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo issued a policy that would allow soldiers who become pregnant and their sexual partners to be court-martialed. But he appeared to back away from the policy in a conference call with reporters, saying the policy was intended to emphasize the problems created when pregnant soldiers go home and leave behind a weaker unit.
"I have never considered court-martial for this, I do not ever see myself putting a soldier in jail for this," said Cucolo, who oversees U.S. forces in northern Iraq. But since pregnant women automatically go home, their units are left short-staffed, he said.
Bye bye to ignore. I have no patience for people who stereotype a group of hundreds of thousands of people... all of which were tasked with the job of protecting your rights. [Mod edited for language]
I did the same same for the first time ever. Some would have us believe that every male soldier is out there waiting for a chance to rape someone. In all my years of Military service I never met a rapist or had one in any of my units.
I did the same same for the first time ever. Some would have us believe that every male soldier is out there waiting for a chance to rape someone. In all my years of Military service I never met a rapist or had one in any of my units.
I hear you. Especially for deployments because those are even more critical. When you get a billet stateside at a desk or recruiting or whatever, that's the right time to plan. It's not that military females should be forbidden marriage and children, but planning so it's least disruptive to the mission isn't optional. I knew some who used class c school time to upgrade their quals coinciding with pregnancy. They find a way.
The military isn't meant for all females anymore than all males and should never be thought of as such. Speaking for myself, I don't believe I would have done a very good job in marines or infantry because it didn't suit my abilities. The coast guard suited my abilities exceptionally well.
I hear times have changed and they've decided to be a little more family friendly. Even that policy shouldn't be interfering with the mission at hand, whatever it might be today. Years ago it meant a kinder gentler ombudsman for wives got elected. hahahahaaa
I'll say about texdav's comments- all armed services have come to the realization that they literally cannot do without female contingent. Troops have been stretched threadbare these past few years. We apparently do that good of a job keeping the wheels greased, natural born team players as well. Overweight, drugs, DWI, criminal behavior will get anyone tossed out no matter gender. Standards to advance being unmet in timely way will also offer you the boot. Career military is a much harder hoop to jump through nowadays, with far less bennies, higher requirements for full pensions, and health care coverage at VA that's a political football every election. Let's make sure we treat our people right.
You seem to know what you're talking about so I have a question.
Are there any restriction on what women can be assigned to do?
You seem to know what you're talking about so I have a question.
Are there any restriction on what women can be assigned to do?
Do women have gender normed much lower PT standards which just might have something to do with why they are not allowed into the most physically demanding branches?
You seem to know what you're talking about so I have a question.
Are there any restriction on what women can be assigned to do?
YES! It's important as civilian for you to know that the military laws, justice, culture etc are a separate entity in many ways, and for good reason. Your rights on Main st USA are inappropriate in a military setting, and it should not be railed against wholesale or the military would be rendered dysfunctional. Good order and discipline are key to efficacy. These priviledges are suspended in support of those priviledges you enjoy on main street.
Article 10 hasn't been erased, but seemingly reinterpreted. Article 10 states women may not be assigned in combat duties, areas, etc. Older geneartions of military were instructed that their response to aggression coming at them from an enemy-- essentially they're supposed to hide behind their brothers, not fight side by side with them, and wait to be shuffled out of a hot zone. Timeline of the convo between Dave and I-- Dave's reference to changes during clinton... http://www.cdi.org/issues/women/combat.html
Quote:
On October 1, 1994, the Defense Department issued a policy that rescinded the so-called "risk rule" that gauges the specialties to which women can be assigned. The policy was backed strongly by Secretary of Defense Les Aspin and was the extension of the changes made in April 1993 that opened most aviation specialties, including attack helicopters, to women (Army, March 1994). The policy emphasized that no job will be closed to women just because it is dangerous, but fails to open direct offensive ground combat jobs to women (Army, March 1994). Even today, though, the official policy of the Army and Marine Corps excludes women from combat which precludes 12 percent of skilled positions and 39 percent of the total positions (GAO Report, July 1996).
Libs and cons see it as something not quite right, but none are willing to endorse a policy where women would only be restricted from combat on the grounds of lack of aptitude. Combat aptitude isn't something you can measure on a test. It's something of a clairsentient knowledge, a different kind of intelligence that's physically orientated. Myself as example, I'm exceptionally gifted at spacial apptitude, and they were trying to push me into aviation, but I truly felt more comfortable behind the wheel of small boats and large ships. Women, like myself, who lack that 'other' ability do not belong weighing down our troops with incompetance. My position is that I want every qualified person getting a fair shot for billets. Just because I am not mechanically inclined does not mean that ALL females should be excluded. Just me, on solid ground of lacking skills.
I did have aptitude/ ability to be boarding team and Law enforcement. I was also sharpshooter/marksman in various weapons, and had I more access to a firing range for practice, likely could have improved far beyond that recognition. (Access to firing range for all in CG resembled an annual traveling road show. Not good.) My judgemental skills were a strong asset to the boarding team in much more difficult situations where the military is interfacing with civilians. Brute strength is the least used tool, but I was prepared for that too. My brothers in arms required me to step up, cover their backs, and be what was needful. I was less likely to punch you in the jaw, and more likely to utilize martial arts techniques to disable. The 'rules' and objectives in these situations had flexibility enough for me to modify, based on technique, my delivery of results. Results count! The policy of shoot to kill is easy math, and weaponry is a great leveler.
Y'all mention rape in military. Of course nobody wants to see that happen, but it does happen. It's not about sex, it's about power/ dominance. What's wrong with the training levels of females in military when they cannot fend off a single attacker??? I'd rather not chase after rapists, as if all males in military were such (THATS BS!), but concentrate more on females being competant in their own defense, and eventually, in defense of their country in more meaningful ways. Look how a military policy telling women to wait for a saviour is enabling rape. Shameful!
There was more involved for converting a Navy war ship to allow women to serve on board. The racks were the same, but other things had to be changed. The head had to be totally renovated to increase the number of toilets and to install trash cans for maxipads and tampons. Within a month of moving on board, they clogged up the sewage system with the maxipads and tampons. The HTs saw what was clogging up the system, went up their chain of command, and the captain ordered all females to the female birthing compartment. He ordered them to fix the problem they created and if they clogged it up again, they'd be fixing it again. They didn't get liberty call until 8:30pm. Two years later, they did not clog it up again. The female birthing compartment also had to have curtains at all entrances for their privacy. At that time, men had to knock several times, crack open the door, announce "male on deck", and wait for the all clear before entering a female birthing compartment. Women were free to come and go through male birthing compartments as they please. Yes, there were some women who pulled their own weight,...but honestly, they were the minority during the time I was in the Navy. Oh, something else that had to be changed to allow female sailors to serve on war ships was the medical ward. New equipment and supplies had to be installed for them. All of these things added up to millions of dollars of labor and equipment to retro fit war ships to allow female sailors to serve on board.
Absolutely. The conversion issues and all the unintended consequences that came with integrating the sexes on combatant ships is the reason why sub duty has been the last holdout when it comes to allowing women, aside from it being very hard duty. Now I hear women will be allowed to do bubblehead duty.
Bottom line is that you know the deal when you sign up. You won't always be "home" and you make home where you are, and it isn't always somewhere that is conducive to domestic life. If you choose to have a family, you must provide for their care while you're deployed. It's called responsiblity, it's called duty to your country, it's called sacrifice.
I did the same same for the first time ever. Some would have us believe that every male soldier is out there waiting for a chance to rape someone. In all my years of Military service I never met a rapist or had one in any of my units.
I did, and I doubt it was a career path for him so much as it was opportunistic. I was out partying with the crew on shore leave and he followed me on my way back to the ship. Innebriated, I still managed to deliver a beating sufficient to not only ward off the attack, but to put all on notice what I was capable of when provoked. The marks on his person weren't pursued at sick call, and anyone asking-- I slipped. He could never look me in the eye again and went into overdrive to get transfered out.
My command didn't let on knowing anything, but the crew knew. This guy suffered the rejection of the crew, and no way any of us were letting Officers get involved with their particular pet brand of soap box justice. F' your politics. I handled problems at the lowest possible level, as proscribed by military policy.
I won far more than my own defense. He lost far more than an opportunity at gratification. Neither showed up in our records formally and I do not require therapy TYVM. 6 o'clock news didn't have to be called and this is the only time I've ever mentioned this embarassment to the service save for convo's with my crew directly back in those days. Had I broken his arm or put him in a coma I might have been brought up on charges myself. There are fates worse than the brig. This story in no way should be construed as representing the hundreds of positive relationships I had with my shipmates at various duty stations. This was one incident, with one individual. My military experiences weren't an episode of peyton place.
Arizona bear, texdav, sailordave and yourself might have satisfied yourselves to think I hate men, or blame all men... you're flat out wrong. I hate behaviors, I hate attitudes, and I won't tolerate crap if it's crap anymore than a male should have to. Some POS coming at you to sexually dominate should expect the thrashing of his life. Why should anyone expect less from me, or worse, pull an administrative/ socially sanctioned chinese foot binding to hobble me in their ass backwards version of what it means to be female? I'm not your momma, I'm not your girlfriend, and I'm not your wh*re. Grow up!
So my attitude has been, to those who relegate me to the pile of 'militant feminazi', I could give a rats behind about your unqualified opinion regarding my right to exist. I've said the same to social liberal telling me I ought to entitle myself to jeapardize the mission. Witnessed in this thread is an obliviousness to military systems, and some libs are willing to see that lack of information, while others will blindly rail. None are qualified to rewrite policy. The only revisions to policy needed are the ones created in house. The peanut gallery can step off.
Career military women have a huge problem with conservatives defending status quo at any cost, and with lib feminists who, at any cost, go about their cause by undermining good order and discipline. Neither works, and if Sailordaves story doesn't prove it, they can continue to exercise failure and expect the same results. I am not career military, but they deserve my support. They deserve your support too, if you honestly saw them as your sisters in arms. Neglecting them, presuming homosexuality (especially when they're responsibly chaste!), or calling otherwise referencing them feminazi's isn't patriotic. Conservatives are hypocrites in their eyes, and that shoe undeniably fits.
Politics in military- that all by itself is BS. I think it's interesting to compare/ contrast the microcosm of sailordaves experience with my own in light of what were prevailing sentiments/ philosophy of crew. My ships compliment had an inordinate number of 3rd party and libertarians, the largest % were moderates. Maybe there's something about the CG's core mission that attracts them, or maybe it was sign of the times- I can't say which. The extreme minorities were staunch conservatives and social liberals. Maybe that's why we managed to get along better with few disciplinary problems and highly decorated??
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), or calling otherwise referencing them feminazi's isn't patriotic. Conservatives are hypocrites in their eyes, and that shoe undeniably fits.
