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Old 12-27-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,848,662 times
Reputation: 6453

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Its sad when so many feel that criminal behavior is no big deal and that we should simply scold the offenders. Mean while it increases the cost of living for everyone.
I don't know that shoplifting rates a jail term. Certainly not the first offense or if it was a pack of gum. The person should still be arrested and charged. Be forced to pay restitution and all court costs. 2nd offense the fines should be stiff and after that we start looking at in house arrest and community service. Personally I think shoplifters are scumbags just like all criminals, But our jail cells are full and it is expensive to house them. There are other punishments for low level criminals.
heres an Idea. Make shop lifters clean kennals at their local SPCA.

I agree with you, it is sad, that so many feel the need for GREED, at our expense. I do not feel that shoplifters for minute items warrants a jail term. But do believe that the person should be arrested and charged, that is stealing. I Think the community service idea is a good one. But as you have stated, our jail cells are full with the more brutal of crimes.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,418,217 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Fun to imagine....but impossible to implement. For the above scenario to happen, you'd need a society capable of 'shame'....(which we've spent the last 35 years getting rid of)...you'd need to get rid of the ACLU (they'd LEAP at a chance to get involved with this!)....and you'd have to silence a whole INDUSTRY of social engineers who make their living explaining why 'nice people do bad things', and why some people 'have' to steal, given the circumstances of their upbringing. You'd also be up against those who insisted that 'shoplifting REALLY doesn't cost business that much, in the overall picture'.

Think of it. You're a frequent contributor on the 'illegal immigration' forum. Isn't this really just another example of the same mindset? Illegal immigration isn't 'wrong', it's just illegal. We've both heard that, right? Illegal immigration is an example of 'good' people violating 'unfair' laws; it doesn't really 'hurt' anyone...in fact, illegal immigration is GOOD!. And the people who are so quick to condemn illegal immigrants...(or shoplifters), are PROBABLY in violation of many laws themselves...so who are ANY of us to judge?

With that in mind, controlling petty crime is pretty much out of the question, unless we want to resort to some draconian Third-World 'crackdown'. Whether we ever descend to that unhappy level will be interesting to see. You can't legislate morality...you can only legislate compliance. That means sure and swift punishment, which right now we're unwilling to apply.
Well said Mac. As usual you nailed it. But it is fun to imagine.
Like some have said I have seen the free grazers in stores and their parents think little of it. Often it is the parent who is free grazing. Our society seeks to divert responsibility from the offender to someone else.
Well if prices wern't so high then people would pay for what they take.
Johnny is a good boy he didn't mean to be bad when he tortured the neighbors cat. His father is away in the war and he was acting out for attention. No Johnny is a very bad boy and needs some big time help.
Shop lifting isn't all that bad. Anyway that stores corporation is worth millions they can afford a little free grazing.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,759,886 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Well said Mac. As usual you nailed it. But it is fun to imagine.
Like some have said I have seen the free grazers in stores and their parents think little of it. Often it is the parent who is free grazing. Our society seeks to divert responsibility from the offender to someone else.
Well if prices wern't so high then people would pay for what they take.
Johnny is a good boy he didn't mean to be bad when he tortured the neighbors cat. His father is away in the war and he was acting out for attention. No Johnny is a very bad boy and needs some big time help.
Shop lifting isn't all that bad. Anyway that stores corporation is worth millions they can afford a little free grazing.
But where is the integrity?
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:37 PM
 
1,747 posts, read 1,718,022 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
But where is the integrity?
Like Al Pacino said in 'Scarface'......."I always tell the truth, even when I lie."

Yeah....where is the integrity in being an honest thief?

And to those who "graze" on candy or grapes at the grocery store.......LOOK on the FLOOR!
Plenty of food choices exist on the floor...esp. in the produce section.
Is it still a crime to eat what you find on the floor?

People just need to QUIT going grocery shopping after they've been smoking pot!

Damn stoners
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:23 PM
 
1,126 posts, read 2,431,206 times
Reputation: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
I saw a show on MSNBC about the shoplifting epedemic. This is a huge problem. The big chains have someone stealing in their stores at all times. Millions of dollars in items are shoplifted. The cost get's passed on to the law abiding shoppers. The criminals ae getting more brazen. There are organized shoplifting networks out there.

When I saw this show I couldn't help but wonder why these shoplifters are not in prison? The fact that we have such massive amounts of shoplifting going on shows how broken our criminal justice system is. Contrary to conventional wisdom the U.S does not put nearly enough of it's citizens behind bars. There is tons of law breaking riff raff out there who should be rounded up and locked up. It seems to me we should at least double our prison population. I know it's expensive but money could be saved by lowering the cost spent per prisoner, for example feed them less meals per day. open more low cost tent prisons,etc.

If we were really serious about the shoplifting crisis in this country we would start chopping off the arms of repeat offenders. For example "3 strikes and your arm get's chopped" would drastically cut down on theft. You might think this is too extreme but I say our current situation of shoplifting run amuck is what's extreme and must change.
And then we call Islamic radicals barbaric extremists...
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,967,893 times
Reputation: 2830
To make a serious post here...

First thing is to differentiate between highschool kids stealing for "fun/excitement/peer pressure" etc, and professional shoplifters, who hit stores and steal for a few thousand dollars in each of them.

Professional shoplifters should be punished like any other organized theft, such as bank robberies etc. (though of course if a bank robber uses a weapon that'll raise the sentence.) They are highly skilled, effective and they rarely get caught. Some of these groups even operate internationally, so international cooperation is key to stop some of them.

I doubt raising the actual penalties will do much though. People who commit crime commit crime whether they'll get 3 or 5 years if they get caught, simply because they never plan on getting caught. If you raise the sentence too much, all you end up doing is give said criminals all the more incentive to do "whatever it takes" to get away, which can put people in harms way.

Similar punishment as now (maybe even lower for some offenses), but tag them, so that it's far harder to steal in the future, if they do, well right back in jail. It's also important to have options in jail, and after, in terms of education etc, to try and get criminals over in a more constructive lifestyle. What's better: Keeping millions of people locked up, costing enourmous sums of money, or try to reduce that number, whilst creating taxpayers?

As for High school kids, children (who might not know better) so on and so forth, tell their parents, and give them a ticket that really stings, like $2-4.000, so if your caught stealing that chocolate or Cd, it's going to be the most expensive one you ever buy. That'll scare and punish most of them enough not to do it again.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,418,217 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
But where is the integrity?
Chiel lack of integrety is exactly whats wrong. As long as some view petty theft as no big deal or try to justify it then it will always be a problem.
Speaking of integrety. Those Denver Bronco's. They claim they are pro football players. Hmmm doesn't look that way today. They should be horse whipped too.
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Old 12-27-2009, 05:43 PM
 
1,747 posts, read 1,718,022 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
To make a serious post here...

First thing is to differentiate between highschool kids stealing for "fun/excitement/peer pressure" etc, and professional shoplifters, who hit stores and steal for a few thousand dollars in each of them.

Professional shoplifters should be punished like any other organized theft, such as bank robberies etc. (though of course if a bank robber uses a weapon that'll raise the sentence.) They are highly skilled, effective and they rarely get caught. Some of these groups even operate internationally, so international cooperation is key to stop some of them.

I doubt raising the actual penalties will do much though. People who commit crime commit crime whether they'll get 3 or 5 years if they get caught, simply because they never plan on getting caught. If you raise the sentence too much, all you end up doing is give said criminals all the more incentive to do "whatever it takes" to get away, which can put people in harms way.

Similar punishment as now (maybe even lower for some offenses), but tag them, so that it's far harder to steal in the future, if they do, well right back in jail. It's also important to have options in jail, and after, in terms of education etc, to try and get criminals over in a more constructive lifestyle. What's better: Keeping millions of people locked up, costing enourmous sums of money, or try to reduce that number, whilst creating taxpayers?

As for High school kids, children (who might not know better) so on and so forth, tell their parents, and give them a ticket that really stings, like $2-4.000, so if your caught stealing that chocolate or Cd, it's going to be the most expensive one you ever buy. That'll scare and punish most of them enough not to do it again.
If shoplifting is such a major threat to our society....as the OP has claimed since they even believe just punishment should be dismemberment and/or a long prison stint......then maybe its time the Federal Govt. stepped in and "fixed" the problem.

I think another Govt. agency must be created to deal with this epidemic.
Maybe another 10 MILLION jail cells?
10 million more cops?
And DON'T forget to implement a NO SHOPPING LIST for these thieving terrorists.....similar to that NO FLY LIST that has worked so well at keeping scum off of airplanes.

See?
The Govt. CAN step up to the plate and tackle this issue just as well as they do with every issue!

Just by hiring about 10 MILLION more cops to plop their behinds in EVERY store with automatic weapons.....ready to fight off the most horrible of people WHILE expanding our prison system (so it can hold more like 30 million prisoners)....... and....with a wage of about $3,500 /month with full benefits X 10 million more cops = problem solved.

And when the Govt. tries to sell you oceanfront property in Arizona, your gonna wish you paid more attention in geography class.

Yeah, it's far cheaper to chop off some hands, but expanding the Prison Industrial Complex to this degree....has GOT to sound far more appealing to some folks.
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Old 12-27-2009, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,418,217 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign View Post
If shoplifting is such a major threat to our society....as the OP has claimed since they even believe just punishment should be dismemberment and/or a long prison stint......then maybe its time the Federal Govt. stepped in and "fixed" the problem.

I think another Govt. agency must be created to deal with this epidemic.
Maybe another 10 MILLION jail cells?
10 million more cops?
And DON'T forget to implement a NO SHOPPING LIST for these thieving terrorists.....similar to that NO FLY LIST that has worked so well at keeping scum off of airplanes.

See?
The Govt. CAN step up to the plate and tackle this issue just as well as they do with every issue!

Just by hiring about 10 MILLION more cops to plop their behinds in EVERY store with automatic weapons.....ready to fight off the most horrible of people WHILE expanding our prison system (so it can hold more like 30 million prisoners)....... and....with a wage of about $3,500 /month with full benefits X 10 million more cops = problem solved.

And when the Govt. tries to sell you oceanfront property in Arizona, your gonna wish you paid more attention in geography class.

Yeah, it's far cheaper to chop off some hands, but expanding the Prison Industrial Complex to this degree....has GOT to sound far more appealing to some folks.
Are you saying that shop lifters should not be held accountable?
I think that they should be arrested and charged. They should have a criminal record as a reward for their efforts. In short they should answer for their crimes. Just as any petty thief should. But jailing a person for stealing a pack of gum is over the top. Their name should be in the paper for their misdeeds. Let the community know who the thieves are.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:06 PM
 
820 posts, read 749,449 times
Reputation: 202
I tried to shoplift once but the building was way to heavy for me.
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