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OK, I'll ask again...what purpose did the unions serve "in the beginning"? What were they needed for???
Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedman
Ok ok slightly misworded but it's the same point. They served a purpose THEN but not TODAY. Just like my example, the plant voted in the U.A.W. and all they got was lower pay and less benefits. They regretted the decision.
what purpose did the unions serve "in the beginning"? What were they needed for?
Yes 100 years ago before real labor laws employers abused employees. Many of them ran their companies like little fiefdoms you were housed by the employer to whom you had to pay rent often very expensive, longer work weeks less pay. I will never dispute that they had their place.
Now, I also have worked in union and non-union jobs, hospitals more often than not. I used to be a flag carrier for 1199. Pro-worker!! Then they exposed themselves as crooks and fear mongerers. I actually had a union rep tell me I HAD to vote for Gore or else I might lose my job. I'm sure it was poor wording but thats what she said. In my experience they protect the lazy while praying on the uneducated. I have NEVER EVER seen an employee in a union make over what their "time" indictaed they get regardless of how hard they busted their butt.
Yes 100 years ago before real labor laws employers abused employees. Many of them ran their companies like little fiefdoms you were housed by the employer to whom you had to pay rent often very expensive, longer work weeks less pay. I will never dispute that they had their place.
So I guess you believe abusing workers NOW is all right???
Now, I also have worked in union and non-union jobs, hospitals more often than not. I used to be a flag carrier for 1199. Pro-worker!! Then they exposed themselves as crooks and fear mongerers. I actually had a union rep tell me I HAD to vote for Gore or else I might lose my job."""
OK, WHY did you believe her? Stupid? Intimidated? Unable to report her to union officials"? Just wanted to whine? Thought it was the law? WHAT?!
"""I'm sure it was poor wording but thats what she said. In my experience they protect the lazy while praying on the uneducated. ''
Your work experience has been very limited IF the only lazy people you ever saw were union...there are lazy people who are NOT in Unions....
And no employer has EVER protected the lazy and pre*** on the uneducated???? REALLY? Where DO you live!!!!!
I have NEVER EVER seen an employee in a union make over what their "time" indictaed they get regardless of how hard they busted their butt.
Your last sentence is incomprehensible....could you reword it....
(the word above with the red E is preyed.....for some reason it can't be printed in the above quote)
Your last sentence is incomprehensible....could you reword it....
(the word above with the red E is preyed.....for some reason it can't be printed in the above quote)
I knew I could count on you for my daily allowance of bold letters, exclamation points and question marks.
1. I didn't believe her, it just allowed me to realize the tactics the union was willing to us to get it's way.
2. I've done over ten years in various hospitals and in the non-union hospitals I never heard the term "thats not in my job description". Never, not once. I heard it all the time in the union hospitals, regardless if it were to benefit a patient or not. Rarely would I encounter someone really going out of their way.
3. I never said it was ok to abuse employees. If you had actually read what I said you'd find that "before labor laws" was in there. See not we have state labor laws that are pretty tight where I'm from.
Unions are self serving entities, parasites. Their sole goal is to keep themselves alive regardless of the outcome, not to help the worker.
Also the union myth that if you use non-union labor you're getting an inferior product. What a load of guano. I ride the LIRR everyday and the tracks and signals are maintained by union labor. Off the top of my head I could safely say that 3 out of 5 days we're late because of "signal problems". Superior product? Hmmm.
Oh I'm sorry the last point, in the union you are paid for years employed not cases done or effort. Your lazy butt survived long enough to have some people below you, now it's coast until retirement. Why do more?
I knew I could count on you for my daily allowance of bold letters, exclamation points and question marks.""
Oh, goodness, I'm sorry if they scare you.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"""1. I didn't believe her, it just allowed me to realize the tactics the union was willing to us to get it's way."""
SHE is not the union, the members are and as a member you could've done something besides believe her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"""2. I've done over ten years in various hospitals and in the non-union hospitals I never heard the term "thats not in my job description". Never, not once. I heard it all the time in the union hospitals, regardless if it were to benefit a patient or not. Rarely would I encounter someone really going out of their way."""
And I have seen union members work very hard and help others, but RIGHTLY refuse additonal tasks that they aren't paid for...why should they????????????? That would be accepting abuse from an employer and if you belong to a union they will back you up.
"""3. I never said it was ok to abuse employees. If you had actually read what I said you'd find that "before labor laws" was in there. See not we have state labor laws that are pretty tight where I'm from."""
No, there really aren't many laws protecting employees, they can cut your pay anytime they feel like it, increase your hours, cut your vacation, reduce overtime pay, cut out holidays, reduce benefits...
(ALL things UNIONS got for you)
"""Unions are self serving entities, parasites. Their sole goal is to keep themselves alive regardless of the outcome, not to help the worker."""
Unions ARE the workers, if the workers are too lazy to get involved and work at BEING union members it's their fault....just like a government.
"""Also the union myth that if you use non-union labor you're getting an inferior product. What a load of guano. I ride the LIRR everyday and the tracks and signals are maintained by union labor. Off the top of my head I could safely say that 3 out of 5 days we're late because of "signal problems". Superior product? Hmmm.
Oh I'm sorry the last point, in the union you are paid for years employed not cases done or effort. Your lazy butt survived long enough to have some people below you, now it's coast until retirement. Why do more?
You haven't had the experience to know that there are lazy people who aren't in unions ....your denying that all people are human is hilarious....
1. I DID NOT BELIEVE HER!!!!!!! IT LET ME SEE WHAT THE UNION WAS WILLING TO DO TO PROMOTE THEIR CANDIDATE!!!!!!!!! Just hoping that maybe if I put things in bold you'll actually read AND understand them.
2. That is the exact line of thinking that makes people hate unions. Case in point a nurse had asked an aide to grab something from the nursing cart. The aide said it's not my job. So the nurse had to leave the patients side and get what she needed while her "aide" continued to text whomever.
3. I know of a union who has a gym, subsidized child care free lunches. How many "members" (really donors) are allowed to these events and to use these facilities? Zero.
4. I had noticed that my union dues had doubled. I thought it was a fluke in payroll, they told me to call the union. I did, let very polite and educated sounding person on the other end of the line informed me I voted for this in Albany. Albany is two hundred miles away from where I live. How am I supposed to vote? Easy, you're not.
5. Unions pay people not for effort or things accomplished. They pay for time served. And that to me is insane.
Yes people are lazy all over, the union protects them for it.
1. I DID NOT BELIEVE HER!!!!!!! IT LET ME SEE WHAT THE UNION WAS WILLING TO DO TO PROMOTE THEIR CANDIDATE!!!!!!!!! Just hoping that maybe if I put things in bold you'll actually read AND understand them.
Do we really want to start comparing the pro-union tactics with the anti-union tactics?
1. I DID NOT BELIEVE HER!!!!!!! IT LET ME SEE WHAT THE UNION WAS WILLING TO DO TO PROMOTE THEIR CANDIDATE!!!!!!!!! Just hoping that maybe if I put things in bold you'll actually read AND understand them.""
Then,if you didn't believe her what difference could it make?????? One person does NOT make a union....
""""2. That is the exact line of thinking that makes people hate unions. Case in point a nurse had asked an aide to grab something from the nursing cart. The aide said it's not my job. So the nurse had to leave the patients side and get what she needed while her "aide" continued to text whomever."""
Then there should've been enough nurses to do the job....unqualified people should not be helping in patient care....that could bring about lawsuits.
3. I know of a union who has a gym, subsidized child care free lunches. How many "members" (really donors) are allowed to these events and to use these facilities? Zero.
4. I had noticed that my union dues had doubled. I thought it was a fluke in payroll, they told me to call the union. I did, let very polite and educated sounding person on the other end of the line informed me I voted for this in Albany. Albany is two hundred miles away from where I live. How am I supposed to vote? Easy, you're not.
Never happened to me so that negates your experience.
5. Unions pay people not for effort or things accomplished. They pay for time served. And that to me is insane.""
Unions don't pay employees, the employer does.
Yes people are lazy all over, the union protects them for it.
And non-union CONNECTED lazy people are protected, too. I have seen that happen, you haven't...it exists.
And non-union CONNECTED lazy people are protected, too. I have seen that happen, you haven't...it exists.
Oh but wait it hasn't happened to me so it negates your experience.
there should've been enough nurses to do the job....unqualified people should not be helping in patient care....that could bring about lawsuits.
Typical response, instead of doing whats right we'd rather do nothing. GO UNIONS!!!
5. Unions pay people not for effort or things accomplished. They pay for time served. And that to me is insane.""
Unions don't pay employees, the employer does.
Again typical semantics. We all know that the UNION CONTRACT dictates what the EMPLOYEES get paid. The employer just cuts the check.
sickofnyc99: I'm really sorry that you had a bad experience with your union representative. But can we agree that a union is only as good as the people it represents? A lot of people who grip about paying union dues and about poor representatives---sounds like you had one of those---don't bother to ever go to union meetings or vote for union officers and reps. I'm not saying this is true of you but in general that is usually the case. I would guess that all unions occasionally get a poor rep voted into office but they are quickly voted out of office as well. A union is just a microcosm of our entire population i.e. if only 20% of Americans vote, then we can expect to get a different kind of mayor/governor/senator/representative/president than if 95% of Americans vote. Same is true with unions.
Some unions locals are better than others, no question about it, but it's not fair to paint them all with the same brush stroke. Our local UAW, for example, does a ton of charity work---builts a house every year for Habitat for Humanity, they do blood drives, Toys for Tots drives, have a Santa Clause girls club, sends packages to the troops, and takes part in lots of community outreach programs for the poor and veterans, etc., etc.
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