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View Poll Results: Unions? Are they a needed security
Unions are needed to fight the unscrupulous employers 25 27.47%
Unions are not needed, as one's individual character & talent determines if they work 36 39.56%
We need both, as a checks and balances to the workforce 30 32.97%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-03-2010, 07:07 PM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,519,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
Oh but wait it hasn't happened to me so it negates your experience.

there should've been enough nurses to do the job....unqualified people should not be helping in patient care....that could bring about lawsuits.
Typical response, instead of doing whats right we'd rather do nothing. GO UNIONS!!!""""

What's right is to hire enough NURSES to do NURSE's jobs....NOT risk the quality of products or services with untrained workers.

"""5. Unions pay people not for effort or things accomplished. They pay for time served. And that to me is insane.""

Unions don't pay employees, the employer does.




"""Again typical semantics. We all know that the UNION CONTRACT dictates what the EMPLOYEES get paid. The employer just cuts the check.
NO, the employees get paid what the employer and union members AGREE TO in a contract after negotiations.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,131,280 times
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My thoughts (and I know I will be in the minority on this). I understand why unions exist and see the need that they do.

Unfortunately the ease from which they are corrupted, and the 'crap rolls downhill' factor with them and the actions of their top brass results more often in abuse than not.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:09 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,359 posts, read 7,720,840 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
Again typical semantics. We all know that the UNION CONTRACT dictates what the EMPLOYEES get paid. The employer just cuts the check.
No, you are wrong on all counts. Unions don't tell employers what to pay their members. It's called negotiating a contract. Union reps sit down with company reps and they negotiate. It's often long and painful negotiations with each side getting and giving. Once they agree, the contract still has to be ratified by the entire union membership.

By the way, did you see my post #160 addressed to you? You haven't replied.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:13 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 3,028,967 times
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Ok so we're agreeing that unions have a hand in how much employees get paid right?

You see I work for an east end hospital part time, I work for the country's number 1 cancer center during the week. The east end hospital would have liked to offer me more money but the union contract forbade it. So, I have more experience with more people with a more critical population all things that would get me more pay in a non-union hospital or at least I'd be able to negotiate. Union hospital no can do.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:22 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 3,028,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
.

sickofnyc99: I'm really sorry that you had a bad experience with your union representative. But can we agree that a union is only as good as the people it represents? A lot of people who grip about paying union dues and about poor representatives---sounds like you had one of those---don't bother to ever go to union meetings or vote for union officers and reps. I'm not saying this is true of you but in general that is usually the case. I would guess that all unions occasionally get a poor rep voted into office but they are quickly voted out of office as well. A union is just a microcosm of our entire population i.e. if only 20% of Americans vote, then we can expect to get a different kind of mayor/governor/senator/representative/president than if 95% of Americans vote. Same is true with unions.

Some unions locals are better than others, no question about it, but it's not fair to paint them all with the same brush stroke. Our local UAW, for example, does a ton of charity work---builts a house every year for Habitat for Humanity, they do blood drives, Toys for Tots drives, have a Santa Clause girls club, sends packages to the troops, and takes part in lots of community outreach programs for the poor and veterans, etc., etc.
Sorry about the delay in responding I try to be pretty snappy with replies.
Again I don't think unions should be telling me who to vote for. They had pins and the like all ready to go. We were in the middle of negatiating a new contract, we were picketing in front of the hospital, carrying signs the whole bit. After all that the union agreed to the contract that the hospital put forward in the first place. Then a few months later due to all the hard work the union put in getting us our raises (you know the ones we were going to get anyway) They upped our dues by 50%, far outstripping our raises. This was a major union probably one of the biggest. Soured me forever.
I can't deny that unions still do SOME good works, for example the emphasis on job training like you mentioned earlier I'm all go for. But on the whole I'm much happier working in a non-union hospital were I know that busting my behind has a direct result in my wallet.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:28 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,359 posts, read 7,720,840 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
Ok so we're agreeing that unions have a hand in how much employees get paid right?

You see I work for an east end hospital part time, I work for the country's number 1 cancer center during the week. The east end hospital would have liked to offer me more money but the union contract forbade it. So, I have more experience with more people with a more critical population all things that would get me more pay in a non-union hospital or at least I'd be able to negotiate. Union hospital no can do.
Yes, we are in agreement that unions and companies hammer out a contract on how much to pay employees. In that sense, the union "has a hand" in it.

What you are saying in the second paragraph sounds like something a personal director would say when someone comes in looking for a job, expecting a wage of x-dollars an hour. And the personal director says, "I wish we could offer that to you but we have a contract with the union and we can only pay x-dollars an hour." Did something like that happened? It's hard to wrap my mind around why a hospital would try to pay someone more than they have to, given they signed contracts to the contrary.

Quote:
Sorry about the delay in responding I try to be pretty snappy with replies.
I wasn't be critical...I just thought you might have missed seeing my post #160 because these posts have been moving so fast tonight and it was on another page. Sorry.

Last edited by Wayland Woman; 01-03-2010 at 07:37 PM..
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:37 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 3,028,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
Yes, we are in agreement that unions and companies hammer out a contract on how much to pay employees. In that sense, the union "has a hand" in it.

What you are saying in the second paragraph sounds like something a personal director would say when someone comes in looking for a job, expecting a of wage of x-dollars an hour. And the personal director says, "I wish we could offer that to you but we have a contract with the union and we can only pay x-dollars an hour." Did something like that happened? It's hard to wrap my mind around why a hospital would try to pay someone more than they have to, given they signed contracts to the contrary.

I wasn't be critical...I just thought you might have missed seeing my post #160 because these posts have been moving so fast tonight and it was on another page.
Oh no, no offense taken. This has been fast and some cases furious. I was actually speaking to the director of the dept who is also a friend of mine. It had a graph that said if you've been working this long you make this much. Period end of story. So even though I've had more diverse experiences if not more experience I get paid the same, doesn't seem right. Also there is an employee at the non-union job who over the course of a month completed 20 scans. Thats one a day for the month. Outrageous. The supervisor read him the riot act, problem solved. That would never happen in a union, there'd be harasment complaints and all the like all for telling this guy to do what they're paying him for. I don't know, my experience has been that people who know more about their union handbook than their jobs are NG.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,359 posts, read 7,720,840 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc99 View Post
Oh no, no offense taken. This has been fast and some cases furious. I was actually speaking to the director of the dept......................[etc.]
Thanks for explaining your point of view. I'm glad I don't work in a hospital---union or non-union. From my experience as the wife to a man who spend 3 months in the hospital and 5 months as an out-patient everyone there works hard. And I have no idea what so ever if our local hospitals are unionized.

You're right about knowing the union handbook. Too bad everyone doesn't know it forward and backward. You should have run for rep. That's one way to get rid of a bad one like you had.

Last edited by Wayland Woman; 01-03-2010 at 08:03 PM..
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