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Old 01-04-2010, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,506 posts, read 4,391,891 times
Reputation: 1373

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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell
Israel is an allie, our friend. Can you document the illegal occupation and warcrimes? I'm curious to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
It's called watch something other than FOX News. Did FOX report on the July bombing in 2006 or the most recent assault in 2008 where thousands of civilians were killed in Gaza?

Probably not. The United States and Israel are hated for a reason in the Muslim world, and those reasons include the deaths of countless thousands of innocent civilians

The Israeli attacks on Gaza - an interactive guide to the conflict day by day | World news | guardian.co.uk
I verify my news from the unclassified government document section of the Federation of American Scientist website. And no I don't watch Fox. Funny for you to assume.

We are hated because we are infidels and I also understand Israel phoned them first. Of course that was hearsay from a boss that was talking with some one else and I over heard him.

Sorry I can't see your video...I'm on dial up and well I can't watch videos without having to wait an hour and if they are streaming video, it isn't happening.

Have you seen the movie, "We Were Soldiers Once", I thought is was pretty good...I wonder if it was spot on.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,575,134 times
Reputation: 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
We are hated because we are infidels
This one pathetic platitude is the loathsome root of all the bull**** we hear from the miseducated right wing.

"They" (except as one may outweigh a milllion) do not hate us because we are "infidels". "They" hate us because we are imperialists and liars and colonizers and thieves and murderers. And well that they should.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,506 posts, read 4,391,891 times
Reputation: 1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
I'm "curious to know" what supposed connection there is between your first and second sentences above. You appear to be saying either that we do not befriend nations that commit illegal occupations and war crimes or else that when our friends do it, occupations are not illegal and war crimes are not criminal. Either way, I don't suppose for a minute you would write something that idiotic, at least in a public place where other people might read it.

I'm also mildly curious why you think Israel is an "allie" [sic].
Videos are lost on me.

The US defends its allies :: Middle East Forum

and people should not turn their backs on their friends. Never know when they might be needed to return a favor.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,575,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Videos are lost on me.

and people should not turn their backs on their friends. Never know when they might be needed to return a favor.
Yeah, such favors we've gotten from that friendship--USS Liberty...Pollard...two wars...9/11...$100 billion straight into their coffers...great friendship.
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,506 posts, read 4,391,891 times
Reputation: 1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
This one pathetic platitude is the loathsome root of all the bull**** we hear from the miseducated right wing.

"They" (except as one may outweigh a milllion) do not hate us because we are "infidels". "They" hate us because we are imperialists and liars and colonizers and thieves and murderers. And well that they should.
I went back to that Middle East Forum that I linked in the earlier post. Tell me is this more right wing BS miss-educated BS. I honestly haven't defined myself in terms of labeling...so inform me if I am left or right?
Quote:
the non-Muslim world is the enemy, ipso facto.
Shameless Islamist Doublespeak Rages On: Hezbollah's "New" Manifesto in Context :: Middle East Forum
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,061 posts, read 19,178,389 times
Reputation: 20653
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Wow, that's awfully nice. Instead of granting liberals the common decency that they are living breathing fully-functioning human beings capable of intelligent and rational thought, you reduce them to a disease.

Proof that when it comes to hate, liberals hate bad ideas while conservatives hate people who have different ideas.

He's just echoing Limbaugh.

And that's so much easier than thinking.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,134 posts, read 20,767,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Israel is an allie, our friend. Can you document the illegal occupation and warcrimes? I'm curious to know.
Israel is currently in violation of 33 UN resolutions regarding war crimes. Sharon was indicted by the World Court for the massacres in the camps in Lebonan, not brought to trial because of his heart attack. Only the US Veto keeps them from being embargoed. Some Ally, how many times have we caught Israelis spying on us?
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,575,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
I went back to that Middle East Forum that I linked in the earlier post. Tell me is this more right wing BS miss-educated BS. I honestly haven't defined myself in terms of labeling...so inform me if I am left or right?
Shameless Islamist Doublespeak Rages On: Hezbollah's "New" Manifesto in Context :: Middle East Forum
That article is right-wing BS in its implications, yes. And your selected quotation is from the article's analysis of the manifesto, not the manifesto itself.

Hezbollah, while a relatively radical group, draws support from many Christian and secular Lebanese because they do a better job at taking care of the people than the Lebanese government does, and because they stand up to Israel's aggression.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,506 posts, read 4,391,891 times
Reputation: 1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Israel is currently in violation of 33 UN resolutions regarding war crimes. Sharon was indicted by the World Court for the massacres in the camps in Lebonan, not brought to trial because of his heart attack. Only the US Veto keeps them from being embargoed. Some Ally, how many times have we caught Israelis spying on us?
War is a crime I'll give it that. It still doesn't change the fact that the U.S. supports Israel and has for many years. I don't know why the support was started to begin with. Perhaps you do. Even as you point out the massacres and the U.S. Veto...perhaps Israel is still a friend. I mean that is something a person would do for a friend, Veto something bad they had done.

I found this and thought this to be interesting read.

Quote:
Last week, reportedly based on a tip from U.S. intelligence, Israel seized a ship carrying weapons said to be supplied by Iran and intended for Hezbollah fighters. DNI Cites Progress Against Air and Sea-Based Threats | Secrecy News
This new terrorists war will take a collective effort on the part of many countries to come together. We should be figuring out how to help each other.

I'm not a foreign policy person. Shoot, I'm still trying to figure out the definitions of conservative and liberal. I'm the type of person that all I see is people, no tags, no labels, just people trying to live their life the best they can.

Last night before falling asleep I had a vision of sorts, not a vision perhaps that's not the word to use but given to my imagination thoughts of what would be if it came to...I thought if a terrorists had a knife to my neck and my son Chris who is military was standing in front of me with a gun to shoot him. He'd have to shoot through me to get him. I'd be telling him to follow through and shoot. I could hear him say, sorry mom, just before the gun goes off.

War crimes, it is a crime, when people decide to kill others and not let them live their life. If I could change the world I would, but I can't. So we are left to having these conversations. With an unanswerable question, what is right and what is wrong in the middle of diversity?
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,506 posts, read 4,391,891 times
Reputation: 1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
That article is right-wing BS in its implications, yes. And your selected quotation is from the article's analysis of the manifesto, not the manifesto itself.

Hezbollah, while a relatively radical group, draws support from many Christian and secular Lebanese because they do a better job at taking care of the people than the Lebanese government does, and because they stand up to Israel's aggression.
Thank you for your insightfulness. Now clicking through on the links of the article I found the pdf of the analysis. I'll read that later. But also in the follow through I found these points:

Quote:
As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High’s Word: “We renounce you. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us—till you believe in Allah alone” [Qur’an 60:4]. So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility from the heart. And this fierce hostility—that is, battle—ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [i.e., a dhimmi], or if Muslims are at that point in time weak and incapable [in which case, bin Laden later clarifies, they should dissemble (taqiyya) before the infidels by, say, insisting the conflict is about “foreign policy,” nothing more]. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy!… Such, then, is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred—directed from the Muslim to the infidel—is the foundation of our religion. » Osama Bin Laden: man of love? Middle East Strategy at Harvard
I placed in bold for emphasis Laden's words.

Then from the reuters page I see manipulation statement:
Quote:
"The American administration's unlimited support to Israel ... places the American administration in the position of the enemy of our nation and our peoples," he said. Hezbollah cuts Islamist rhetoric in new manifesto | Reuters
This is what they think from what I read here, unless of course this is all made up for our reading pleasure.

The op is 'did they die for our freedom', so for that I must ask a question or make a statement here that is weighing on my mind...

praying 5 times a day---a new freedom? There's a bottom line where all of this is heading...steer it away from it, or go there? I don't think they will stop until we the American people are a 100% Muslim nation.

If it isn't about that then why do they keep repeating the same words over and over again? Am I not to believe what I read that they said? And I'm not even going to go into the be-headings because we are certainly all aware of those, that goes without having to say a word.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 01-04-2010 at 02:43 PM.. Reason: miss spelling
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