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Old 01-03-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,096 posts, read 4,692,243 times
Reputation: 2877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
^Ayn Rand was a fiction writer. Thomas Jefferson and James madisons were slave owners who stated all men are equal.

Its foolish to create false gods from fallacious doctrines of dead men.
Thomas Jefferson also hated slavery, and he had wanted to abolish slavery since he wrote the declaration of independence. The problem with himself and slavery is all economic. Its similar to the problems we have with illegal immigration. We don't like it but we don't want to pay high prices for fruit, so many would-be honorable companies are forced to use illegal immigrants as almost a slave labor just to remain competitive.

"We have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other."

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-03-2010 at 02:11 PM..
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Old 01-03-2010, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,131,280 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
you saw that as an anti-semitic post? interesting, because there was not ONE WORD in that post which would fall into that category. i guess that is how "smearing" starts.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy
ron paul is going to start getting seriously smeared now that people are taking him seriously, and i am sure that the MSM will try to go after his son too. anytime that the NWO is threatened in any way, the attacks start. they want nothing to start in the way of the big business new world order, and making money!
The NWO has been linked to the antisemetic 'jewish world takeover' theories by fringe right and fringe left wingers.
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Old 01-03-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Pleasant Ridge, Cincinnati, OH
1,040 posts, read 1,158,512 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
...Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were slave owners who stated all men are equal...
And Al Gore is a global warming activist who flys around in private jets, lives in an enormous house, and has a massive personal carbon footprint.
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Old 01-03-2010, 04:20 PM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,520,925 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
^Ayn Rand was a fiction writer. Thomas Jefferson and James madisons were slave owners who stated all men are equal.

Its foolish to create false gods from fallacious doctrines of dead men.
The Founding Fathers knew the problem of slavery needed to be addressed but they left future generations to do it. Had they chosen to do otherwise I dare say these United States probably never come in to being. The union of all the States was deemed more important. Remember this is following the failure of the first constitution, the Articles of Confederation. The Southern states would never have joined the new United States had they been disallowed from continuing slavery. I think the Founders made the right decision.
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Old 01-03-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,131,280 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnhilltopper
You can post it as many times as you like but it doesn't make it true.
You can claim you dont accept the truth as much as you wont, but sans any counter REFUTABLE sources, are you are doing is talking, not proving anything.

Quote:
I've seen your blathering rantings that anything to the right of you is some kind of plot by neonazis and stormfront and I'm pretty tired of your high school labeling tactics. Its low rent and the last resort of someone without an argument.

You toss out these quotes that Ron Paul allegedly made but has on several occasions publicly denied. Yet you probably know this but did it anyway as it is your Modus Operandi.
1. This thread is on Ron Paul.

2. Nice ad hominem attack on me. Ive seen your posts on the groups mentioned as well. Your acquiescent support of their ideals is not unnoticed.

3. Still you have no refuted ANYTHING MENTIONED IN THOSE CITED ARTICLES. Personally attacking me is fine. Ive come to expect that of you. But dont claim I am not giving support when IN YOUR OWN QUOTE I provided no less than 3 article links to the topic...1 of which is a major news magazine and another cites the main newspaper for the city of Houston.

Doing that makes it look like you didnt read the post your just replied to.

Quote:
You toss out these quotes that Ron Paul allegedly made but has on several occasions publicly denied. Yet you probably know this but did it anyway as it is your Modus Operandi.
Yes, sure he publically denied it. OJ publically denied killing nicole. David Duke denied being a klansmen. When people are caught doing something bad, they usually deny it. Again, you are all ad hominem attacks and NO substance. I wont argue too much else you will re-ban me to prevent my breaking your sourceless arguments again.

PS- Wikipedia is not a recognized reputable source, buddy. Never has been in any form of academia, research, or statistical databasing. But nice try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShadowz
Thomas Jefferson also hated slavery, and he had wanted to abolish slavery since he wrote the declaration of independence. The problem with himself and slavery is all economic. Its similar to the problems we have with illegal immigration. We don't like it but we don't want to pay high prices for fruit, so many would-be honorable companies are forced to use illegal immigrants as almost a slave labor just to remain competitive.
I was actually hoping to discuss this with you. Other than your own admittance to being a member of the group the above poster seems to swear is not present here, I wanted to discuss Paul with someone of your ideologies.

Thomas Jefferson did not oppose slavery (obviously, he kept a large number of slaves), he was just aware that America would need to end it so as to develop further. Im looking for the treatise he wrote on the topic now to post it. I remember it from an American History Textbook. Basically it goes something to the tune of "Slavery becomes a vice which is harder to extricate from" (thats not a direct quote, it was a full set of paragraphs).

added: Zgack beat me to the punch here. Apologies zgack, I did not see your post before responding to Shadowz.

Last edited by tindo80; 01-03-2010 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:12 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,657,795 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post
You can claim you dont accept the truth as much as you wont, but sans any counter REFUTABLE sources, are you are doing is talking, not proving anything.
The source is right there in front of your durned eyes, so either you cannot read or you choose not to. I'll type slower for ya this time, hows that...

Quote:
In a January, 16 2008 report of Reason, Julian Sanchez and David Weigel uncovered evidence that Lew Rockwell was involved with the newsletters.[44] According to the report, an unnamed source in the Paul campaign and Timothy Wirkman Virkkala, former managing editor of Liberty magazine, testify to Rockwell having a role in authoring the letters.
Now what part of that don't you understand?



Quote:
2. Nice ad hominem attack on me. Ive seen your posts on the groups mentioned as well. Your acquiescent support of their ideals is not unnoticed.
So since you claim Ron Paul is a racist, then my support of that makes me a racist too. oy vey...

Quote:
3. Still you have no refuted ANYTHING MENTIONED IN THOSE CITED ARTICLES. Personally attacking me is fine. Ive come to expect that of you. But dont claim I am not giving support when IN YOUR OWN QUOTE I provided no less than 3 article links to the topic...1 of which is a major news magazine and another cites the main newspaper for the city of Houston.
I refuted it by not only noting that Ron Paul denied the claims and stated they were written by a ghost writer, I also offered new evidence that showed his former campaign manager, Lew Rockwell was behind these statements that were in a news letter. Lew Rockwell was a strong supporter of Paul until he ended his affiliation with the Libertarian's(to which Lew Rockwell has been their strongest voice) and went back to the Republican Party. You claim that it is a lie, so if this is the case that his own denial of it isn't good enough then I guess we will have to consult God and see what he says.

The comments you referred to in various newspapers have been denied as far back as 1992, again in 1996 when they surfaced again during a tight Congressional race, and again in 2008 when Paul ran for President. Any crosseyed drug addicted teenager huffing paint fumes can even see the pattern here, why can't you?

Quote:
Yes, sure he publically denied it. OJ publically denied killing nicole. David Duke denied being a klansmen. When people are caught doing something bad, they usually deny it.
Ok, using your lack of logic then, Richard Jewell, the original suspect in the Atlanta Centennial bombings is really guilty, right? I mean a bomb went off, he was blamed and denied it but according to your manner of non-thinking, he must be guilty. I guess we can let Eric Rudolf out now huh.

Quote:
PS- Wikipedia is not a recognized reputable source, buddy. Never has been in any form of academia, research, or statistical databasing. But nice try.
Never said it was, not that you would know anything of academia, research or statistical databasing, otherwise you would note those little numbers within the articles are notations and refer to specific sources of information that are cited in the general article. If one chooses to research further, you can use the wiki as a general reference. However, I'll be sure to note that since Wikipedia states that gravity does in fact exist, but since it isn't a valid source, we can deny it and float our way to work.

Quote:
I was actually hoping to discuss this with you. Other than your own admittance to being a member of the group the above poster seems to swear is not present here, I wanted to discuss Paul with someone of your ideologies.

You didn't want to discuss Ron Paul, you wanted to label him as a racist antisemitic type in which you could then denigrate as you have done repeatedly around here. Additionally, no one has ever stated that there are no racist and antisemitic types who lurk about the internet, stop making this nonsense stuff up, this isn't high school.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,131,280 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
The source is right there in front of your durned eyes, so either you cannot read or you choose not to. I'll type slower for ya this time, hows that...
You tell me hilltopper, if you have a magazine under your name, and alleged 'ghost writers' write things you do not agree with, what do you do? IMMEDIATELY fire them and distance them from yourself, stating that you did not make those statements, or wait 20 years until you plan on running for president then when it comes to light magically claim you had no dead (even though similar statements were made repeatedly over 15 year period) and THEN say it wasnt you? What do you think is more likely?

Its called CYA, and its pretty standard in politics.

Quote:
So since you claim Ron Paul is a racist, then my support of that makes me a racist too. oy vey...
??? Are you ron paul? Unless you are him, I did not call you a racist specifically. Any other assertions are your doing, not mine.

Quote:
Ok, using your lack of logic then, Richard Jewell, the original suspect in the Atlanta Centennial bombings is really guilty, right? I mean a bomb went off, he was blamed and denied it but according to your manner of non-thinking, he must be guilty. I guess we can let Eric Rudolf out now huh.
Since you are familiar with wikipedia, Ill give you another link. Its called a Straw Man argument, and its exactly what you are doing here. Mixed with another of your 'ad hominem' statements.

Quote:
I refuted it by not only noting that Ron Paul denied the claims and stated they were written by a ghost writer, I also offered new evidence that showed his former campaign manager, Lew Rockwell was behind these statements that were in a news letter.
See my above statement, and the statement from my last post. CYA

Quote:
Never said it was, not that you would know anything of academia, research or statistical databasing, otherwise you would note those little numbers within the articles are notations and refer to specific sources of information that are cited in the general article. If one chooses to research further, you can use the wiki as a general reference. However, I'll be sure to note that since Wikipedia states that gravity does in fact exist, but since it isn't a valid source, we can deny it and float our way to work.
LOL, more personal insults. How mature of a person in your position. Next youll be spewing ethnic slurs at me. But, Ill be the bigger man and stick on topic.

YOU simply stating 'hey I dont agree with it and anyone who looks it up will agree' still amounts to nothing more than talk. BRING CITATION or accept that all your claims are just that, opinionative.

Quote:
You didn't want to discuss Ron Paul, you wanted to label him as a racist antisemitic type in which you could then denigrate as you have done repeatedly around here. Additionally, no one has ever stated that there are no racist and antisemitic types who lurk about the internet, stop making this nonsense stuff up, this isn't high school.
I wanted to discuss his involvement with antisemites and racist. That is VERY much a discussion on him. Unless in your mind a 'discussion' = only that with praises he whom you agree with.

Ill leave you with this picture, that speaks louder than words:



Thats Ron Paul posing with Antisemite White Supremacist and Stormfront website founder Don Black and his son. The Blacks were contributors to Pauls campaign, and his website was and is a big endorser to the Ron Paul and Rand Paul campaigns.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:12 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,657,795 times
Reputation: 3676
http://thestressblog.com/2008/01/14/...ends-ron-paul/

Quote:
Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been under a vicious smear attack by opponents for charges of racism. The charge appears to be completely unfounded and Paul continues to advocate individual freedom.
The Austin NAACP President Supports Ron Paul Against Charges of Racism « Saint Luke


Print|Email|Single Page
Who Wrote Ron Paul's Newsletters?

Who Wrote Ron Paul's Newsletters? - Reason Magazine
Quote:
But a source close to the Paul presidential campaign told reason that Rockwell authored much of the content of the Political Report and Survival Report. "If Rockwell had any honor he'd come out and I say, ‘I wrote this stuff,'" said the source, who asked not to be named because Paul remains friendly with Rockwell and is reluctant to assign responsibility for the letters. "He should have done it 10 years ago."
Further goes on to say:
Quote:
Rockwell was publicly named as Paul's ghostwriter as far back as a 1988 issue of the now-defunct movement monthly American Libertarian. "This was based on my understanding at the time that Lew would write things that appeared in Ron's various newsletters," former AL editor Mike Holmes told reason. "Neither Ron nor Lew ever told me that, but other people close to them such as Murray Rothbard suggested that Lew was involved, and it was a common belief in libertarian circles."
The article goes on to point out what many close to Ron Paul, both politically and socially have stated, that these statements are wholly out of character with Paul and over his more than 20 years in government, there is a great deal of his writing to look at. They go on to note that none of these types of statements were ever made during his first three terms in Congress during the 1980's and his Libertarian bid for the Presidency in 1988. Then suddenly, Paul a man with life long political ambitions and a desire to be President makes racially charged comments, publishes them, then never makes another said comment of the sort over the course of the next 18 years?

Little Green Footballs - When Lew Rockwell Attacks
Quote:
And there’s very good evidence that he is behind those sick racist newsletters published in the 1980s and 90s by Ron Paul: Who Wrote Ron Paul’s Newsletters?: Libertarian movement veterans, and a Paul campaign staffer, say it was ‘paleolibertarian’ strategist Lew Rockwell.
Granted, LGF is a center left site with strong support for Israel, as noted:
Quote:
LGF won the "Best Israel Advocacy Blog" award from the Jerusalem Post in 2005.[6] According to Gil Ronen, a reporter for Internet news outlet, Israel National News:[7] If anyone ever compiles a list of Internet sites that contribute to Israel’s public relations effort, Johnson's site will probably come in first, far above the Israeli Foreign Ministry's site.
So Ron Paul denies it, the President of the NAACP in his region defends him, and one of the strongest supporters of Israel does as well, as well as nearly anyone who has known the man, yet despite these places offering their support of Paul, you label him a racist.

As to the photo, Paul also stated he didn't have a clue who those people were. Obama has been in the same room and taken a photo with Dick Cheney, does this mean Obama supports Dick Cheney?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ormfront02.jpg

Note the following picture, as Paul claimed, it was a rally in which he was signing photographs and taking pictures with supporters. How you can extrapolate that Ron Paul endorses Stormfront because of this photo?
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Washington
843 posts, read 1,131,280 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnhilltopper
The article goes on to point out what many close to Ron Paul, both politically and socially have stated, that these statements are wholly out of character with Paul and over his more than 20 years in government, there is a great deal of his writing to look at. They go on to note that none of these types of statements were ever made during his first three terms in Congress during the 1980's and his Libertarian bid for the Presidency in 1988. Then suddenly, Paul a man with life long political ambitions and a desire to be President makes racially charged comments, publishes them, then never makes another said comment of the sort over the course of the next 18 years?
Thank you for providing sources finally. However, there is still nothing that leans against this being a CYA tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo
You tell me hilltopper, if you have a magazine under your name, and alleged 'ghost writers' write things you do not agree with, what do you do? IMMEDIATELY fire them and distance them from yourself, stating that you did not make those statements, or wait 20 years until you plan on running for president then when it comes to light magically claim you had no 'idea'[typo] (even though similar statements were made repeatedly over 15 year period) and THEN say it wasnt you? What do you think is more likely?

Its called CYA, and its pretty standard in politics.
And dont forget the contributions and campaigning done with Don Black I referred to in the previous post.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:10 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,657,795 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80 View Post

And dont forget the contributions and campaigning done with Don Black I referred to in the previous post.
He never campaigned WITH Don Black ever and as to the one contribution Black made to the Paul campaign, the following statements were made.

Quote:
"Dr. Paul stands for freedom, peace, prosperity and inalienable rights. If someone with small ideologies happens to contribute money to Ron, thinking he can influence Ron in any way, he's wasted his money," Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said. "Ron is going to take the money and try to spread the message of freedom."

"And that's $500 less that this guy has to do whatever it is that he does," Benton added.
What if one of Obama's campaign contributions came from a Black Panther or one of McCain's contributions came from a person who was a KKK member, does this mean these candidates support or endorse these people because they made a political donation? If this is the standard used to depict what a persons agenda is, then every single political figure in America is likely guilty.
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