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Old 01-05-2010, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Fly-over country.
1,765 posts, read 6,368,886 times
Reputation: 907

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Climate change is real. You guys can argue all day about the finer points of man-made, man-enhanced, natural cycle, solar-based or sent from god-- none of that matters. What matters is what people do to adjust over time. That's it. We can start to live better or pretend things are just fine and see what happens.

And to the OP. In 1990, All of KY was in USDA Zone 6 with highest points in Zone 5. According to studies, observations and teperatures, KY is now mostly Zone 7 -- but the official government maps are resistant to change. The Arbor Day Foundation This is based on observations from 5,000 climate stations in the US.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:00 AM
 
11,943 posts, read 17,446,426 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
In 1990, All of KY was in USDA Zone 6 with highest points in Zone 5.
What was Kentucky during the Ice Age?
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:12 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,399,782 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by caution View Post
Climate change is real. You guys can argue all day about the finer points of man-made, man-enhanced, natural cycle, solar-based or sent from god-- none of that matters. What matters is what people do to adjust over time. That's it. We can start to live better or pretend things are just fine and see what happens.

And to the OP. In 1990, All of KY was in USDA Zone 6 with highest points in Zone 5. According to studies, observations and teperatures, KY is now mostly Zone 7 -- but the official government maps are resistant to change. The Arbor Day Foundation This is based on observations from 5,000 climate stations in the US.
Would that be these climate stations?

www.surfacestations.org

What methodology do they use to calculate such? How do they account for the bias in the station readings? How can they account for such when the majority of the USHCN data is showing severe bias?

Could you provide me with this information? I checked the site you linked, but they make no effort to cite their methodology or data collection methods. Maybe you know of a place that does?

I know I am picking at the "finer points", but if the claim can not support its position, then it is just an unfounded opinion and you know what they say about opinions.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 29,984,374 times
Reputation: 32387
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Being both spekptical and confused about the alleged global warming issue, I sat down and broke-out the calculator a few months ago and did some math. If you take the age of our planet (about 4.6 billion years) and then factor in the very, very brief time that mankind has been able to accurately track our weather patterns andglobal temps. (maybe 100 years?) I reckoned that the comparison was roughly equivalent to having a 50 year-old man go outside for 10 minutes on his 50th birthday and observe the weather. And then making a prediciction on it's "latest pattern" using that miniscule timespan.
This would seem to hardly present a credible test period.
And yeah, down here in normally sunny and tropical Austin, TX, we've been 10-20 degrees below normal for the past month.
there is a lot more to it than tracking weather patterns. drilling ice cores and studying them, for example. Even if we weren't actively monitoring the weather, there are other ways of studying what was going on on this planet a loooooong time ago.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:15 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,399,782 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
there is a lot more to it than tracking weather patterns. drilling ice cores and studying them, for example. Even if we weren't actively monitoring the weather, there are other ways of studying what was going on on this planet a loooooong time ago.
And what do ice core samples say by the way?
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:24 AM
 
39,202 posts, read 40,587,898 times
Reputation: 16081
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizjo View Post
Remember canaries in mines?
They were used to detect a lack of oxygen, specifically blackdamp because if you get stuck in a pocket of it you might have seconds:

http://www2.ironminers.com/chris/MOV08697.MPG

Quote:
Blackdamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blackdamp is considered a particularly pernicious type of damp (especially in a historical context), due to its omnipresence where exposed coal is found, and slow onset of symptoms. It produces no obvious odor (unlike stinkdamp), is constantly being reintroduced to the air (instead of being released in pockets from actively mined sections), and does not require combustion in order to be released (unlike whitedamp or afterdamp). Many of the initial symptoms of oxygen deprivation (dizziness, light-headedness, drowsiness and poor coordination) are relatively innocuous and can easily be mistaken for simple fatigue, a far from unlikely diagnosis in the physically-strenuous job of coal mining. The time between the onset of initial symptoms and the start of frank asphyxiation (and rapid unconsciousness) can be as short as seconds. Thus, if the warning signs are missed, a large number of miners can be rapidly incapacitated in the same short period of time, leaving no one to summon help.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Fly-over country.
1,765 posts, read 6,368,886 times
Reputation: 907
This discussion is exactly why the arguement is futile.

My point is that climate is changing, I don't care why, and people must adapt. It has always changed. It will always change, but modern man lives way out on the margin with just in time delivery methods for everything. That isn't sustainable. It won't work, and the climate and or lack of reasonable fossil fuels (at some point in the future) is going to smack it down.

'Yall can argue about everything all day long. You all know the climate has changed before and will change again. We're not adapting a sustainable solution to support ourselves. That's the problem.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:33 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,193,545 times
Reputation: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
Whatever happened to the big hole in the ozone layer? Remember when that was a huge topic? Last I heard, it was closing or had closed.

YEAH what happened TO THAT?!?!?!

oh wait.. there was a massive reduction effort of Chlorofluorocarbons in the late 80's and early 90's as a result of the Montreal protocol..

I mean it is described as an environmental success story because of the OVERWHELMING response by RATIONAL people to a problem..

Good catch though as it clearly shows that a world wide response to an environmental problem can help.

2 cocktails to you sir.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:04 PM
 
2,691 posts, read 3,099,078 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
BINGO!!! Money is the root of the entire thing. Earth will change ON IT'S OWN, adapt, change again and on and on. And man cannot stop it.
But man sure can accelerate it. Thats the point.

Global warming aside, its sure nicer breathing clean air than the output of coal plants and car exhaust. Maybe that alone should be reason to look for alternatives.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:45 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,399,782 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by caution View Post
This discussion is exactly why the arguement is futile.

My point is that climate is changing, I don't care why, and people must adapt. It has always changed. It will always change, but modern man lives way out on the margin with just in time delivery methods for everything. That isn't sustainable. It won't work, and the climate and or lack of reasonable fossil fuels (at some point in the future) is going to smack it down.

'Yall can argue about everything all day long. You all know the climate has changed before and will change again. We're not adapting a sustainable solution to support ourselves. That's the problem.
You keep calling for a need to change, an urgency to adjust, but you refuse to acknowledge that the premise to which you base your conclusions on may not be valid (or severely misinformed) and so acting on false information can be just as bad as the danger it proclaims to avoid.

The fear you mention isn't new and the predictions of doom keep being revised to deal with the lack of evidential support to their claims. This is why the details matter. Otherwise we might as well simply carry a sign through the streets calling out that the end of the world is near.
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