Divorce in OK might get a tad bit harder... (Barack Obama, economic, elect)
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It is Oklahoma. This is pretty much what you expect to come out of that State.
that isn't even a fair statement.
I will add, though I may not totally agree, I would like to see divorce a little harder to get, maybe more couples would either try harder to make the marriage work when there are kids involved or at least think twice before tieing the knot.
It is hard for me to understand how so many marriages are failing. I am about twice the age of most of you. We have very few friends who have been divorced and most of our friends are very happy in their marriages. Why suddenly do people think, oh, I am not happy so I will get a divorce or have an affair. In our family there has been 2 divorces, both were our son, twice he couldn't make it work, both times he entered into the relationship with a **** poor attitude.
Nita
Why is it any business of the state if couples want to stay together or part? What Constitutional justification is there for the state involving itself in what are personal choices? (I'm speaking of the Oklahoma Constitution here because it is a proposed state law).
The federal constitution and the state consistitution are two entirely separate entities. In fact, marriage itself is not part of the constitution. It is a legal institution created by a state. Therefore the states have jurisdiction over it, and can make any law regarding to it as long as it is within the bounds of its state constitution.
If you do not like the marriage laws of Oklahoma, then don't live in Oklahoma, you have other options. It isn't like you have to leave the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel
Why is the State getting itself involved. No i don't see the point or reasoning, when a couple can no longer stand each other, staying together for the sake of the children, is not always the best decision, for the children. I knew a couple like this, and they stayed togehter until the kids were past there teens, wow after that, The women was out the door. But until that point, she was never home for the kids, what good is that.
The state is looking out for the best interests of its people. A state is a smaller division of a country. And it is meant to more accurately represent the social norms and expectations of the people within it. And while you may think it is terrible that a state could pass a law like this one. Remember, there are 49 other states. That is the idea behind states rights vs the federal government. It is a checks and balances system, where you don't have lawless anarchy which is bound to happen if we followed the constitution verbatim, because if the people of a state thought its laws were unfair, there are 49 other states they move to. It allows for expansion of power without the oppression of the minority. Unless of course they are a minority in all 50 states, then they would probably be better off leaving the country.
What upsets Oklahomans is that, 100% of Oklahomans can vote for something, and then 100% of Californians or New Yorkers can come along and tell us that our vote doesn't matter, and pass a federal mandate, in which we have no options. Then when we threaten to secede, you tell us that you'll just invade our state, replace our government officials, and do whatever you like anyway.
And most Americans think that system is perfectly acceptable.
Totally disagree. It's absolutely, stunningly, amazingly stupid on the part of Kern. But what can we expect from a wing nut on the extreme fringe of the GOP. It's totally unworkable. Even in a state with OK's reputation for right wing thinking, I foresee this being shot down in a hurry by the OK legislature. Of course if it passes, people seeking a divorce will move to another state, or simply walk away from a bad marriage and go elsewhere, leaving taxpayers in OK to pick up the tab for abandoned children, which is just the OPPOSITE of what that clown intends with this proposed bill. The right wing never ceases to amaze with their words and deeds. Either this is a publicity stunt to get press time or she's a total whack job. Once again, the right wing makes us the laughing stock of the world.
We should make it harder to get MARRIED, but that's another story. Right now, any two yahoo's can get a marriage license for a few bucks and start playing house. We teach people how to drive, and many other things, but we don't teach them diddly about marriage and family life unless they seek out counseling beforehand.
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It's legal to have sex out of wedlock in every state. It's legal for adults to live together out of wedlock in every state. It's legal to have children out of wedlock in every state. There are certainly a basket of rights associated with marriage, but those are basically perks they want to force people to make a lifetime commitment to get. If you don't have compelling religious or moral reasons to avoid divorce, I don't see why the state wants so desperately to keep you married. It makes about as much sense to me as legislating how often someone has to go to church.
Totally disagree. It's absolutely, stunningly, amazingly stupid on the part of Kern. But what can we expect from a wing nut on the extreme fringe of the GOP. It's totally unworkable. Even in a state with OK's reputation for right wing thinking, I foresee this being shot down in a hurry by the OK legislature. Of course if it passes, people seeking a divorce will move to another state, or simply walk away from a bad marriage and go elsewhere, leaving taxpayers in OK to pick up the tab for abandoned children, which is just the OPPOSITE of what that clown intends with this proposed bill. The right wing never ceases to amaze with their words and deeds. Either this is a publicity stunt to get press time or she's a total whack job. Once again, the right wing makes us the laughing stock of the world.
We should make it harder to get MARRIED, but that's another story. Right now, any two yahoo's can get a marriage license for a few bucks and start playing house. We teach people how to drive, and many other things, but we don't teach them diddly about marriage and family life unless they seek out counseling beforehand.
Why would the state of Oklahoma be forced to pick up the tab for children if the parents want to move to another state to get divorced? When parents get divorced do they normally drop their kids off in state custody? Are children unable to leave the state with their parents?
The truth is, if this law passes, the worst-case scenario is either, Oklahomans will be less likely to get married in the first place, or they'll lie about their reasons for getting divorced(infidelity would still be allowed). And the best-case scenario is, it will force families with young children to make an attempt to work things out "for the kids". And make sure the children actually have a male and female role-model as they grow up.
I know too many people who have gotten married that have no respect for what marriage really is. They knew going into the marriage that they could back out of it at any time, so getting married kind of meant nothing. The only worry most young men seem to have when it comes to relationships is having to pay child-support if things don't work out. And rarely do men really look at child-support as "taking care of the kids", it is seen as a payment to the undeserving woman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
It's legal to have sex out of wedlock in every state. It's legal for adults to live together out of wedlock in every state. It's legal to have children out of wedlock in every state. There are certainly a basket of rights associated with marriage, but those are basically perks they want to force people to make a lifetime commitment to get. If you don't have compelling religious or moral reasons to avoid divorce, I don't see why the state wants so desperately to keep you married. It makes about as much sense to me as legislating how often someone has to go to church.
You are absolutely right, if people want to have sex then they'll do it. But if they want to get married, and walk up there and say "till death do us part", then they damn sure better have a good reason to get divorced. If you are incompatible, that should have been known well before you said your "I do's", and especially before you start popping out babies together. The point of this legislation isn't to punish married couples. It is to make a person think twice before they get married in the first place. Because marriage is supposed to mean something. Here is something else she said..
"Something is wrong when you can get out of a marriage easier than a loan for a car."
If OK fathers are not allowed to divorce in OK then some will simply leave their family behind, leave OK and abandon their wife and kids; the mothers most likely will go on state assistance, i.e., OK taxpayers pay the bill. Some men may even murder their wives to end a marriage, another unintended consequence of stupid law-making.
No government has the right to tell anyone they cannot get divorced, nor should any state have that power. What I find so stupefyingly hypocritical is the woman proposing this law is a GOP right winger, who talks out of the OTHER side of her mouth about getting government off of people's backs and out of our lives. People like her make the USA the laughing stock of the world.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 01-05-2010 at 08:57 PM..
Here's an idea: why not make it HARDER to get married?
I would totally agree that people should be required to be in a relationship for a certain amount of time before they get married. But that is pretty much impossible to enforce because people could just lie about it. To enforce it would require some new government bureaucracy to do oversight. Kind of like how immigration does with people who marry foreigners so they can their green card or citizenship. And I think that would be a horrible waste of money.
On the other hand, taking away the "incompatibility" or "irreconcilable differences" reasons for getting divorced, which still allows abuse or infidelity as a reason to get divorced(and abuse can also be verbal abuse). I mean, all that you would have to do is go cheat on your wife, or even hire a prostitute and take pictures, then bam, you're divorced.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-05-2010 at 09:03 PM..
Here's an idea: why not make it HARDER to get married?
True, but hard to implement. I'd settle for a "life cycle" set of education in all schools that teach about the finances, credit, obligations and numerous issues that will confront people as they move forward beyond high school. Issues like health insurance, substance abuse, sex ed and birth control, etc. Most parents do a very poor job on all these topics. Anything we can do to prepare kids for the honest realities of life is a good thing. Better we teach them now than for them to learn the hard way.
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If OK fathers are not allowed to divorce in OK then some will simply leave their family behind, leave OK and abandon their wife and kids; the mothers most likely will go on state assistance, i.e., OK taxpayers pay the bill. Some fathers may even murder their wives to end the marriage, another unintended consequence of stupid law-making.
No government has the right to tell anyone they cannot get divorced, nor should any state have that power. What I find so stupefyingly hypocritical is the woman proposing this law is a GOP right winger, who talks out of the OTHER side of her mouth about getting government off of people's backs and out of our lives. People like her make the USA the laughing stock of the world.
I still don't understand your logic. Are you telling me the man can't send money to his wife and kids if he leaves the state? Why can he pay child support if his children live in the same state but not if they live out of the state?
The government is who authorizes all marriages, they also require you to get a blood test for a marriage license, they also have rules for marriage. No one under a certain age can get married, and no close relatives can get married. Why do you think it is "stupid" for the government to have control over the process of divorce?
In fact, you obviously have no concept of economics. This law would prevent couples from getting divorced or would force couples to leave the state if they seeked a divorce. If they don't get divorced they will live together and be much less likely to seek public aid. If they have to leave the state to get divorced, they will be someone elses problem. And if only the man leaves the state, he will still be liable for child support and any other payments, which would not change the outcome at all.
This bill could actually save the state of Oklahoma millions a year.
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