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Old 04-24-2010, 08:19 PM
 
20,315 posts, read 9,823,088 times
Reputation: 4381

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Depends on what information is on the birth certificate. If a hospital and doctor's signature are listed, that information can be verified.
i looked a little deeper into this one. turns out federal law only requires hospitals to maintain medical records for 7 years. in new york state ( couldn't find similar for hawaii ) the law is that obstetric records must be kept till the child is 21. so, a 35 year old presidential candidate would not be able to verify the doctor and/or hospital.

 
Old 04-24-2010, 08:27 PM
 
9,881 posts, read 9,015,241 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
i looked a little deeper into this one. turns out federal law only requires hospitals to maintain medical records for 7 years. in new york state ( couldn't find similar for hawaii ) the law is that obstetric records must be kept till the child is 21. so, a 35 year old presidential candidate would not be able to verify the doctor and/or hospital.
Most states require that the records be kept at least 7 years after the 18th birthday.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 08:42 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 924,436 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by meson View Post
Albert Einstein's definition of insanity - "Doing the same thing over and over
again and expecting different results." Sounds like the perfect definition of
birther doesn't it folks...
Spot on. The birthers are insane liars. There is not factual basis that will deter their racist attacks.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 08:44 PM
 
20,315 posts, read 9,823,088 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by pommysmommy View Post
Most states require that the records be kept at least 7 years after the 18th birthday.
i thought that might be the case. still, at 25, makes doctor and hospital unverifiable for the purposes of the presidency.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:18 PM
 
1 posts, read 747 times
Reputation: 11
Wayland Woman said:

"Try Googling that sentence in the blog: The Certification of Live Birth is a legal document, but it is TOTALLY INADEQUATE when it comes to proving an individual was born in Hawaii. The blog writer claims it's a direct quote from the state of Hawaii. In a Google search it pops up on a lot of birther sites but it doesn't show up on a single Hawaii.gov site. It's pure fiction."

Sort of and sort of not. A certified COLB is considered prima facie evidence of the claims on it unless the original birth certificate is amended, in which case a legal determination of the facts can only be made by looking at ALL the documentation provided for the certificate and its amendments, according to Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17. And that determination can only be made by a judicial or administrative person or body when the certificate is presented as evidence.

Because Obama's birth certificate is amended, his COLB is not adequate for legal purposes; Hawaii law says it is not prima facie evidence and forbids any legal conclusion about the claims on even the original birth certificate without weighing the actual evidence submitted.

The Hawaii Department of Health administrative rules (which were illegally hidden from the public until November of 2009) also say that any genuine birth certificate (including the abbreviated certificate, which is the official name for the Certification of Live Birth, as confirmed by Okubo in an e-mail to me) must have note of amendments. Because the HDOH has made a statutory admission that Obama's birth certificate is amended and the Factcheck COLB does not note the amendment, the HDOH has indirectly confirmed that Factcheck is a forgery.

They've also confirmed that it is a forgery because Okubo stated that Oahu birth certificates have always been received by the state registrar's office and given a certificate number by the state registrar on the same day, the "date filed". The Factcheck COLB has a "date filed" 3 days before the Nordyke twins' yet a certificate number 2 later than theirs. In the past people tried to explain this by saying the hospitals had pre-numbered birth certificates, or that different secretaries at the state registrar's office had different piles that were processed days apart. But Okubo has directly ruled out both of those explanations. The incompatibility between the "date filed" and certificate number shows that at least one of those items has been altered and the COLB is thus known as a forgery.

Okubo and Fukino have both known that the Factcheck COLB was forged all along. When I asked Okubo directly whether she would tell the public if Factcheck was a forgery and report it to law enforcement she said that she can't reveal ANYTHING about a birth certificate (apparently including the fact that it is a very public, critical forgery). Apparently she doesn't realize that failure to report a known felony to law enforcement is itself a felony (misprision of felony).

I have reported it to law enforcement at every level of government and at EVERY LEVEL they have refused to investigate.

Documentation - including the communications from the HDOH, the laws and rules, and my communications to law enforcment and their responses (if any) - can be found at [url=http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/red-flags-in-hawaii-2/]Red Flags in Hawaii Butterdezillion's Blog[/url]

So you're sort of right and sort of not. If Obama's COLB was not amended it would be considered prima facie evidence from a legal standpoint. But because Obama's has been amended it is a whole different ballgame and neither Fukino nor Okubo nor Lingle can legally attest for ANYTHING that is on the birth certificate until it is presented to them as evidence - according to Hawaii law. There is no scenario where Obama would present his BC to any of them as evidence. He COULD present it as evidence to a secretary of state or to a judge, but he has so far spent a lot of money to make sure that never happens - even though it is the only way the place of his birth can be LEGALLY determined.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:20 PM
 
9,881 posts, read 9,015,241 times
Reputation: 2874
Welcome butterdezillion. Hope you don't mind that I posted the link to your blog.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:39 PM
 
9,881 posts, read 9,015,241 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterdezillion View Post
Wayland Woman said:

"Try Googling that sentence in the blog: The Certification of Live Birth is a legal document, but it is TOTALLY INADEQUATE when it comes to proving an individual was born in Hawaii. The blog writer claims it's a direct quote from the state of Hawaii. In a Google search it pops up on a lot of birther sites but it doesn't show up on a single Hawaii.gov site. It's pure fiction."

Sort of and sort of not. A certified COLB is considered prima facie evidence of the claims on it unless the original birth certificate is amended, in which case a legal determination of the facts can only be made by looking at ALL the documentation provided for the certificate and its amendments, according to Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17. And that determination can only be made by a judicial or administrative person or body when the certificate is presented as evidence.

Because Obama's birth certificate is amended, his COLB is not adequate for legal purposes; Hawaii law says it is not prima facie evidence and forbids any legal conclusion about the claims on even the original birth certificate without weighing the actual evidence submitted.

The Hawaii Department of Health administrative rules (which were illegally hidden from the public until November of 2009) also say that any genuine birth certificate (including the abbreviated certificate, which is the official name for the Certification of Live Birth, as confirmed by Okubo in an e-mail to me) must have note of amendments. Because the HDOH has made a statutory admission that Obama's birth certificate is amended and the Factcheck COLB does not note the amendment, the HDOH has indirectly confirmed that Factcheck is a forgery.

They've also confirmed that it is a forgery because Okubo stated that Oahu birth certificates have always been received by the state registrar's office and given a certificate number by the state registrar on the same day, the "date filed". The Factcheck COLB has a "date filed" 3 days before the Nordyke twins' yet a certificate number 2 later than theirs. In the past people tried to explain this by saying the hospitals had pre-numbered birth certificates, or that different secretaries at the state registrar's office had different piles that were processed days apart. But Okubo has directly ruled out both of those explanations. The incompatibility between the "date filed" and certificate number shows that at least one of those items has been altered and the COLB is thus known as a forgery.

Okubo and Fukino have both known that the Factcheck COLB was forged all along. When I asked Okubo directly whether she would tell the public if Factcheck was a forgery and report it to law enforcement she said that she can't reveal ANYTHING about a birth certificate (apparently including the fact that it is a very public, critical forgery). Apparently she doesn't realize that failure to report a known felony to law enforcement is itself a felony (misprision of felony).

I have reported it to law enforcement at every level of government and at EVERY LEVEL they have refused to investigate.

Documentation - including the communications from the HDOH, the laws and rules, and my communications to law enforcment and their responses (if any) - can be found at Red Flags in Hawaii Butterdezillion's Blog

So you're sort of right and sort of not. If Obama's COLB was not amended it would be considered prima facie evidence from a legal standpoint. But because Obama's has been amended it is a whole different ballgame and neither Fukino nor Okubo nor Lingle can legally attest for ANYTHING that is on the birth certificate until it is presented to them as evidence - according to Hawaii law. There is no scenario where Obama would present his BC to any of them as evidence. He COULD present it as evidence to a secretary of state or to a judge, but he has so far spent a lot of money to make sure that never happens - even though it is the only way the place of his birth can be LEGALLY determined.
Thank you for coming to C-D. You say what I have been saying, Obama could stop all speculation if he chose to do so.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:46 PM
 
20,315 posts, read 9,823,088 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterdezillion View Post
Because Obama's birth certificate is amended,
.
what is the proof of this ?
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,883 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
what is the proof of this ?
Was just thinking the same thing. It was filed four days after his birth.
 
Old 04-24-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,359 posts, read 7,718,898 times
Reputation: 7213
Butterdezillion: If you claim Obama's birth certificate is "not adequate for legal purposes" tell us how he was able to obtain a driver's license, marriage license, passport, get vetted to run for public office, and get top security clearance both in the senate and as the president of the United States? All of those require a legal birth certificate.

And how do you explain the below statement which is a direct contradictory to what you are saying? (Janice Okabo, is a high up official in the Hawaii government):

Quote:
Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."

She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."
http://www.starbulletin.com/columnis...okua_line.html

Obama's Birth Certificate Verified By State - Politics News Story - KITV Honolulu (http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html - broken link)

The reason no government office you write to will investigate your charges is because it's pretty obvious that you're buying into false birther conspiracy stuff instead of doing your research at creditable sources.

Last edited by Wayland Woman; 04-24-2010 at 10:01 PM..
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