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Old 04-26-2010, 02:11 PM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
As someone who has worked in public health, I found this article interesting.

http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf (broken link)

I read the whole thing. I think you, IC, for posting it. However, its relevance to this issue is about zero.
Only if you selectively ignore the following (which it seems you are trying to do)...

HHS Inspector General:
Quote:
State Practices Create Opportunities for Fraud
It was the consensus of those we interviewed that a number of State practices create opportunities for fraud. Those practices include the following:
- delayed, amended, and midwife birth registrations that are based on affidavits of personal knowledge, include no documentary evidence, and are not often marked or overlaid accordingly;
- limited oversight of local issuing entities by State vital records offices.
The following method of obtaining a Hawaiian birth certificate clearly falls under the 'birth registrations that are based on affidavits of personal knowledge, include no documentary evidence, and are not often marked or overlaid accordingly' category:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2008/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0006.htm

 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,878 posts, read 102,269,915 times
Reputation: 32945
Those are easier BCs to steal. So what is the relevance here? Are you sayng this man who is the president stole an identity?

The governor of Hawaii verified Obama's birth certificate. You can raise doubt all you want, but she verified it.
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:22 PM
 
39,995 posts, read 24,249,026 times
Reputation: 12580
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Hawaiian law? No. It's a state-issued birth certificate.


Again, no law was broken. There is no requirement to verify information provided on a Hawaiian say-so birth certificate.

You asked for speculation. I gave it.


Naturalizing a child who has not acquired U.S. citizenship through either parent is not as easy as filling out a say-so application form to register a birth.
It's not easy perpetuating a fraud for no reason for decades, either. Again, why break the law to get a fraudulent birth certificate, when you can pretty easily obtain naturalized citizenship for your child?

After all, you have to continue that fraud when you apply for a social security card, you have to perpetuate the fraud when you register your child for school, you defraud the US government when you use fraudulent documentation to obtain your child's passport, and you lock your child into that fraud when they renew that passport as an adult, your child has to perpetuate the fraud when he applies for a drivers license, when he registers for the draft, when he applies for a marriage license. And all the time, living with the possibility of being found out? For what.

It's easier to rob a bank than to fill out the paperwork for a loan, too, and yet people think about the consequences before they pull a gun on a bank teller.

So once again, won't you pretty please with icing on top, give a rational explanation of why someone chose to defraud the government to obtain a falsified birth cetificate, rather than simply naturalizing their child who was born to an American mother and had American grandparents as well?
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:24 PM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Those are easier BCs to steal. So what is the relevance here? Are you sayng this man who is the president stole an identity?
I'll quote it again. You seem to not understand what you're reading.

HHS Inspector General:
Quote:
State Practices Create Opportunities for Fraud
It was the consensus of those we interviewed that a number of State practices create opportunities for fraud. Those practices include the following:
- delayed, amended, and midwife birth registrations that are based on affidavits of personal knowledge, include no documentary evidence, and are not often marked or overlaid accordingly;
- limited oversight of local issuing entities by State vital records offices.
The following method of obtaining a Hawaiian birth certificate clearly falls under the 'birth registrations that are based on affidavits of personal knowledge, include no documentary evidence, and are not often marked or overlaid accordingly' category:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2008/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0006.htm

In that passage, the HHS Inspector General addresses the provision of unverified information that has no documentary evidence when registering a birth, not the theft of unsecured birth certificates.
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:29 PM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
It's not easy perpetuating a fraud for no reason for decades, either.
It's a lot easier to perpetuate a fraud for decades when you refuse to release any of your records, isn't it?

Quote:
After all, you have to continue that fraud when you apply for a social security card, you have to perpetuate the fraud when you register your child for school, you defraud the US government when you use fraudulent documentation to obtain your child's passport, and you lock your child into that fraud when they renew that passport as an adult, your child has to perpetuate the fraud when he applies for a drivers license, when he registers for the draft, when he applies for a marriage license. And all the time, living with the possibility of being found out? For what.
You tell us. Is Obama's Indonesian school record, the one that lists him as an Indonesian citizen and a member of the Islamic religion truth? Or fraud?
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:47 PM
 
20,315 posts, read 9,823,088 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post

You tell us. Is Obama's Indonesian school record, the one that lists him as an Indonesian citizen and a member of the Islamic religion truth? Or fraud?
since we know that obama couldn't renounce his US citizenship at that age the "indonesian citizenship" is false. whether or not it is legally fraud depends on the laws of indonesia at that time.

no clue what his faith was at the time nor do i care (..... nor is it constitutional to be a requirement for POTUS ).
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:50 PM
 
39,995 posts, read 24,249,026 times
Reputation: 12580
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I'll quote it again. You seem to not understand what you're reading.

HHS Inspector General:


The following method of obtaining a Hawaiian birth certificate clearly falls under the 'birth registrations that are based on affidavits of personal knowledge, include no documentary evidence, and are not often marked or overlaid accordingly' category:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2008/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0006.htm

In that passage, the HHS Inspector General addresses the provision of unverified information that has no documentary evidence when registering a birth, not the theft of unsecured birth certificates.
Katiana does not have reading comprehension problems. She reads quite well, and understands that the Inspector General notes that some states don't have the best systems to maintain the integrity of birth certificates, but she also notes that you have NO evidence, zero, nada, etc, to make the claim that anyone took advantage of those system weaknesses to obtain a birth certificate for Obama.

You have no evidence that any such thing happened. So why do you think it did?
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:51 PM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 6,115,289 times
Reputation: 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Is Obama's Indonesian school record, the one that lists him as an Indonesian citizen
I assume Obama would have become a dual citizen upon the marriage of his mother to an Indonesian.

Quote:
and a member of the Islamic religion truth? Or fraud?
I don't believe if "membership" is the correct word. You can be Christian or Muslim without a formal ceremony & acquisition of a membership card. They just put him down as the same religion as his father. Religion is just a preference. In any case it's not like little 6 year old Barry had a say in the matter.
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:51 PM
 
2,857 posts, read 5,977,427 times
Reputation: 1716
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It's a lot easier to perpetuate a fraud for decades when you refuse to release any of your records, isn't it?


You tell us. Is Obama's Indonesian school record, the one that lists him as an Indonesian citizen and a member of the Islamic religion truth? Or fraud?
Neither holding citizenship in Indonesia, nor adhering to the Islamic faith, would negate his status as a U.S. citizen.
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,359 posts, read 7,718,898 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It's a lot easier to perpetuate a fraud for decades when you refuse to release any of your records, isn't it?


You tell us. Is Obama's Indonesian school record, the one that lists him as an Indonesian citizen and a member of the Islamic religion truth? Or fraud?

What his step-father listed him as on the school record is not proof of citizenship or religion. It was the only school in the area and the step-father could have very well put down what he had to get him in the school. It's funny how you birthers latch on to that part of the school record but you completely discount the fact that the same school record lists Obama's birth place as Hawaii.
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