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Old 05-11-2010, 10:00 AM
 
1,503 posts, read 924,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerdavis View Post
He's not the only historian who claims that.
Please list the other historians. Vaughn's case on Jefferson is a statement someone made in a political campaign disparaging Jefferson. Hardly solid evidence.

 
Old 05-11-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: On Top
12,388 posts, read 11,608,647 times
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Even conservatives believe birthers are crazy!


YouTube - Roland Martin on CNN: Birthers, Army Doc Want Proof of Pres. Obama's Birth Certificate
 
Old 05-11-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,613,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggingCanoe View Post
Senator Leahy statement alone makes Obama an illegal President.
Who knew that any single senator had the power, just with a simple statement, of making a president illegal!

Gosh... don't let the other Senators know. They might make statements outlawing mortality or repealing the law of gravity.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,770 posts, read 4,267,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meson View Post


Meson what get's me is we have elected politician's thinking Obama is the only president that had a parent born outside our country. Because of that they believe Obama should be disqualified. Don't they realize he is the 7th President that had a parent that was born outside of our country?

Enough with the Tomfoolery.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 12:12 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 924,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
They aren't claims so much as they are theories. And the theories he puts forth have little evidence beyond hearsay. Perhaps he could ask the Jefferson family to submit DNA for analysis. They've provided DNA before, so some family members might be willing to do so again. But without DNA evidence to prove that Andrew Jackson had a black father, he's got nothing. Abraham Lincoln had tanned skin and coarse hair??? That's not proof of anything. Vaughn doesn't have any definitive evidence to support his theories, and any other historians that subscribe to these theories also don't have any definitive evidence.

It also deserves to be pointed out that some of this hearsay was actually political mud-slinging in a historical period where mixed race people were reviled against, and because of the motivation behind the rumors, is even less credible.
I'd suggest that it doesn't rise above idle speculation. Theory is way too formal for this slop.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 12:36 PM
 
180 posts, read 177,309 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Please list the other historians. Vaughn's case on Jefferson is a statement someone made in a political campaign disparaging Jefferson. Hardly solid evidence.
Quote:
The book "Five Black Presidents" was published in 1965 by the noted historian J.A. Rogers. Actually only four Presidents of Afrikan ancestry are identified in the book. They are: 1) Thomas Jefferson 2) Andrew Jackson 3) Abraham Lincoln 4) Warren G. Harding
The 5th was not named in the book at that time. Even though the evidence was strong, at the time of the writing of the book, it was not conclusive that Eisenhower is/was the fifth one.
It is also asserted that Vice-President Hannibal Hamlin, was known to have "black blood" in him. In addition, Alexander Hamilton is said to be the son of a woman, Rachel Fawcett, who had "mixed Blood".
This is one more source. There are several, but I agree it's not definitive, but interesting speculation. Here is some of the original claims:
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson
Served as President from 1801 to 1809 and according to historian Leroy Vaughn was the “son of a half-bread Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father.”

Andrew Jackson
1829-1837
According to Vaughn Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a black man. His oldest brother was reportedly sold as a slave.
Abraham Lincoln
1861 to 1865
The “Great Emancipator” was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man, according to Leroy’s findings. Lincoln had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe.
Warren Harding
1921 to 1923
Evidently, Harding had black ancestors between both sets of parents. Harding also attended Iberia College, a school founded to educate fugitive slaves.
Calvin Coolidge
1923 to 1929
Coolidge claimed his mother was dark because of mixed Indian ancestry. Coolidge’s mother’s maiden name was “Moor” and in Europe the name “Moor” was given to all blacks just as “Negro” was used in America. It later was concluded that Coolidge was part black.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,613,467 times
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You are aware that no real historians take any of those attributions seriously, right?
 
Old 05-11-2010, 02:42 PM
 
180 posts, read 177,309 times
Reputation: 75
I don't necessarily believe it, but I'm not arrogant enough to say if you don't believe as I do, then you aren't a real historian. This seems to be the same arguement that climatologists and evolutionary scientists make. It's a grey area. But, no, I don't personally believe it.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 03:07 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 924,538 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerdavis View Post
I don't necessarily believe it, but I'm not arrogant enough to say if you don't believe as I do, then you aren't a real historian. This seems to be the same arguement that climatologists and evolutionary scientists make. It's a grey area. But, no, I don't personally believe it.
Actually a real historian and a real climatologist would look at the underlying data. In the case of Thomas Jefferson or Andrew Jackson having black ancestors, the data are nonexistent. They are just uncorroborated stories from single sources.

Climate change however has a lot of data backing it.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,613,467 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerdavis View Post
I don't necessarily believe it, but I'm not arrogant enough to say if you don't believe as I do, then you aren't a real historian.
It does not take arrogance to make a simple statement of objective truth. If you can find a real historian that takes these ideas seriously, then show us. Until then, your ad hominem does not contradict my observation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerdavis
This seems to be the same arguement that climatologists and evolutionary scientists make. It's a grey area. But, no, I don't personally believe it.
Actually, it is nothing like the arguments that climatologists and scientists make because those arguments are based on evidence and reason.

Had you ever actually read the pamphlet (not a "book") by Joel Rogers regarding the presidents you would understand why it is not to be taken seriously. It is notoriously superficial and poorly sourced. I do not intend to demean the bulk of his work as his story is an admirable one of achievement arising from deprivation and no formal education whatsoever. And much of what he wrote was progressive and challenging.

But much of his work was also agenda driven and tendentious. And I repeat that no real historian takes any of those attributions re: American presidents seriously.
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