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Old 04-22-2010, 05:18 PM
 
20,325 posts, read 9,862,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggingCanoe View Post
Dr. Conspire: "Did the framers know Vattel’s work in the French?"

He knows they did.
more of that quote:

"They cite this passage from his work, the short English title of which is The Law of Nations:

The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens

Those words, however, are quoted from a translation of de Vattel that first appeared in 1797, 10 years after the Constitution’s ratification. Did the framers know Vattel’s work in the French? If so, there is a problem because the literal phrase “natural-born citizen” is not present in the original French which says:

Les Naturels ou indigènes font ceux qui font nés dans le pays de Parens Citoyens.

For those who don’t speak French, the word “citizen” (Citoyen) appears only ONCE in the sentence."

- dr conspiracy.



he was not questioning the fact that many of the founding fathers spoke and read french but the fact that if they had read de vattel's in the original french available at the time it does not have the direct translation of " natural born citizen ".

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/...ted/#more-3446

 
Old 04-22-2010, 05:56 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Depends on what information is on the birth certificate. If a hospital and doctor's signature are listed, that information can be verified.
The birthers would just say the dr. and hospital were in on the conspiracy. I doubt a hospital keeps records for 49 years anyway. There is no way to absolutely verify anyone's birth certificate.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:05 PM
 
66,444 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
according to the state dept a COLB.
HHS doesn't see it that way. They say a birth certificate isn't enough.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:11 PM
 
66,444 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Certificate Period How to Identify
Birth Certificate 1955?-present
Certificate of Foreign Birth 1982-present City of Birth will be foreign [/B
Delayed Certificate of Birth 1911-present Date of Registration will be up to one year after birth date. Only for children born in Hawaii
Certificate of Hawaiian Birth 1911-1972 Date of Registration will be more than one year after birth date
Foreign Born Hawaiian Adoption 1981- Place of birth (true or probable country of birth)

Note that Obama's bc is not any of the delayed or foreign categories. It was regisitered four days after his birth. The following are details of how to get a delayed certificate of birth:

Wrong! (Mods please note, this is a govt. website)

Part Two: How Did A Person Apply?
By Melody Lassalle
How did a person go about getting a delayed birth certificate? The person filled out an “Application for Certificate of Hawaiian Birth”. This application asked for basic details such as name, place of birth, date of birth, current address, race of father and mother, father’s name, mother’s name, and any physical identifying marks.

The applicant then appeared before the Court. The applicant was interviewed by a representative of the Secretary of Hawaii. At that time, the applicant gave testimony about their birth, parentage, siblings, etc. They presented any documentation that proved they were born in Hawaii. This might include baptismal or other religious records, their parents’ immigration reocrds, or parents’ marriage records.

[b]Next, witnesses gave testimony on the applicant’s behalf. The witnesses might be family members or friends. They had to have first hand knowledge of the applicant’s parentage, birth, and details of their early life. This information was needed to corroborate the applicant’s story.

After the witnesses gave testimony, the applicant might be called back to clarify any discrepancies. The case was reviewed and an official ruling was made. This delayed birth record could then serve the purpose of a real birth certificate.
A lot of copy and pasting, but I didn't reference a delayed or foreign birth certificate. This explains it all short and sweet:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs200..._0338-0006.htm

Any non-parent can give whatever info they want to and get a Hawaiian birth certificate for a child. There is absolutely no requirement or process for verifying the information given.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:24 PM
 
66,444 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
If we can't trust Obama's birth certificate, why all the interest in seeing it?
A birth certificate with the hospital and doctor's signature listed has information that can be verified. A COLB can be printed up based on any info whatsoever someone gives the records clerk, regardless of whether that info is true or not.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:24 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 929,047 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
I haven't seen any legitimate evidence so far that would challenge that.

I do think it's possible that Obama does not want to release the long form because it contains some information that he finds personally embarrassing.
LOL Oh the fantasies of birthers! There is no such thing as a "long form" Hawaiian birth certificate. There are old obsolete Hawaiian birth certificates and there are contemporaneous legal Hawaiian birth certificates. The President of the Unites States of American has provided to all the appropriate authority all of the documentation required to establish his right to be President. He doesn't have to show you a damn thing. Get over it.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:25 PM
 
66,444 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcgCali View Post
The report to which you keep refering is about falsifying birth certificates for identity theft purposes.
Read further. It also talks about citizenship status, and eligibility for benefits.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: On Top
12,388 posts, read 11,630,311 times
Reputation: 4027
I think birthers need to see a long form BC to boost their
already inflated egos...
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,744,913 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
A lot of copy and pasting, but I didn't reference a delayed or foreign birth certificate. This explains it all short and sweet:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs200..._0338-0006.htm

Any non-parent can give whatever info they want to and get a Hawaiian birth certificate for a child. There is absolutely no requirement or process for verifying the information given.
My mother had to get a delayed birth certificate---20 some years after she was born. She had to go to a court hearing and bring witnesses. Katiana's cut and paste is saying the same thing of Hawaii, that testimony is given in a legal setting where representatives of the court verify that those testifying are who they say they are, etc. Once that court case ends, the birth certificate issued is just as legal as any you get directly after a birth. But this doesn't really matter in Obama's case since he didn't get a delayed birth certificate, did he, having been registered with the county 4 only days after his birth, including a weekend and processing time.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 06:34 PM
 
66,444 posts, read 30,302,435 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
my doctor is dead and no doctor is listed on my daughter's COLB. how do we verify ?
Is the hospital listed on the birth certificate that was originally registered with the state, and and did the doctor sign it? States have their vital records, including full birth records, on microfiche or they've been digitized.
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