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Old 01-07-2010, 11:20 AM
 
Location: DFW Texas
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Republicans have done just as much for as as the Democrats...........NOTHING!!!
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXTwizter View Post
Republicans have done just as much for as as the Democrats...........NOTHING!!!
They have done a lot more than nothing.

They have created a welfare state that destroyed the bonds of the family and the community. Aided in the escalation for the rate of divorce, and of single-parent families.

Created division and resentment in society by creating unfair policies like affirmative action. Which has exasperated racial tensions.

They have supported globalization and the exportation of American jobs and capital through the world trade organization, IMF, and the myriad of free-trade agreements.

They have created immigration policies that are slowly destroying society by allowing millions of immigrants to come into the country yearly, worsening unemployment rates, lowering wages in many fields, and greatly increasing crime.

They have created our global empire of more than 700 foreign military bases. They are responsible for the deaths more than 5,000 American soldiers in the war on terror. And the staggering cost of this world empire and our wars will be passed to our children and grandchildren.

I could only wish that the democrats and republicans have done nothing. Nothing would be a huge improvement.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-07-2010 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:08 PM
 
1,914 posts, read 3,121,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXTwizter View Post
Republicans have done just as much for as as the Democrats...........NOTHING!!!
Again:


1866, 1871 and 8175 Civil Rights Acts passed by Republican majorities. Let's NOT forget who the original civil rights party was.

1964 Civil Rights Act: 80% of Republicans voted in favor, 60% of Democrats voted in favor.

Appointed the first female to the Supreme Court.

Appointed the first black Secretary of State.

Ended Vietnam.

Support businesses that create jobs as opposed to supporting unions that take away from bottom lines and tax payers.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,968,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
They have done a lot more than nothing.

They have created a welfare state that destroyed the bonds of the family and the community..
Welfare was necesary at the time of its creation. Ever heard of the Great Depression? Have you ever met anyone who survived it? Welfare since has had its problems, and guess what? There have been 5 Republicans presidents since and guess how many have done anything to fix it? There's been 1 president that has made substantial reform of it, and guess what party he was a member of?
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,342 posts, read 7,116,144 times
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I asked a similar question in another thread this morning. There's been little to no real reply there, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post

I think you're right on the mark in your assessment, Mike. Even when I think back over the last 50+ years, I'm stumped as to what major accomplishments and advancements to our country's welfare that the Republican agenda has been primarily responsible for, compared to that of Democrats.

The Berlin Wall coming down and the collapse of Communism in Russia were huge accomplishments under Republican leadership. And obviously there is a degree of benefit Americans get from those kinds of events. But what about American advancements?

Democrats were responsible for the Civil Rights Act, Equal Rights legislation, "The New Deal" that brought us out of the Great Depression, Social Security, Medicare for seniors, Space exploration, Environmental protection and the expansion of the National Parks Service, the Family & Medical Leave Act, and now the Equal Pay for Equal Work law passed under President Obama, just to name a few.

Under Republicans we got decades of scab-picking the Glass-Steagall Act until they had a veto-proof majority to ensure its overturning, hence, basically forcing Clinton's hand in signing it out of existence (though I do still hold him almost equally responsible ) and the friggin Patriot Act (and thanks for not fighting that harder, Democrats!). I'm sincerely at a loss to come up with a single thing the Republicans have done that has improved our nation even in the slightest. I'm certainly open to being reminded of some, but I'm doubtful the list would even come close to the major improvements shepherded by Democrats.

I'd say it's long past time that Republicans decided to be for something instead of against everything, and that includes real fiscal conservancy, which they have only really paid lip service to.
Now, Mike was kind enough to remind me of the Interstate Highway System instituted by Eisenhower, and the role Republicans played in the Civil Rights Act, even though it was at Johnson's insistence that the legislation was enacted (though I countered that the ball really got rolling with benefits from the New Deal and advocacy by Eleanor Roosevelt).

JerseyG reminds us that a Republican appointed the first female to the Supreme Court, which is definitely a major contribution, so that will go in the credit column, as well. The contention that the appointment of the first black Secretary of State is in any way a significant accomplishment that led to a better society is dubious at best, and while ending the Viet Nam war was indeed an accomplishment, I don't think it belongs in a list of accomplishments that were supported, instituted and shepherded through as legislation for the betterment of society, or landmark appointments that have directly affected the way legislation is upheld, like the other things on the list.

And the last one is nothing but a partisan jab with no real merit.

So Republicans get credit for Interstate Highways, shared credit for the Civil Rights Act, and credit for appointing the first woman to the Supreme Court. That still pales in comparison to the hard work on behalf of working Americans that Democrats have put in, and the resulting legislation that has proven to improve the lives of every citizen.

And we're about to get Health Care Reform that will ultimately benefit working Americans, as well, no thanks at all to Republicans who've done absolutely everything within their power to destroy it at every turn.

It's clear to me from these accomplishments, what Democrats stand for and how they've fought to improve American lives. I still have no clue what Republicans stand for and how they want to make my life better. No clue.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:56 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,390,257 times
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They have saved embryos. Who needs cures for potential spinal cord lesions and congential disorders. A person's life means less than an embryo's!
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:03 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,390,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post

It's clear to me from these accomplishments, what Democrats stand for and how they've fought to improve American lives. I still have no clue what Republicans stand for and how they want to make my life better. No clue.
To be fair, Republicans have achieved a lot. They helped end the Cold War. They improved our nation's defense in the 1980's to the point that we became the overwhelming and most powerful super power in the world with the world's strongest defense. You might take that for granted but all of us are certainly safer as a result of these actions by Republicans. Republicans have also eliminated government bureacracy and spurred the free makets. One reason the 1990's were so successful was because the Republican controlled House and Senate removed regulation, freed and increased access to capital which helped propel the dot.com economy. But I agree the Republicans have also done their fair share of damage as well which many have highlighted on this thread.

I'm a Republican but I'm a Regan Republican and not this Evangelical/Bush version that permeates this forum.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,342 posts, read 7,116,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post

To be fair, Republicans have achieved a lot. They helped end the Cold War. They improved our nation's defense in the 1980's to the point that we became the overwhelming and most powerful super power in the world with the world's strongest defense. You might take that for granted but all of us are certainly safer as a result of these actions by Republicans. Republicans have also eliminated government bureacracy and spurred the free makets. One reason the 1990's were so successful was because the Republican controlled House and Senate removed regulation, freed and increased access to capital which helped propel the dot.com economy.

But I agree the Republicans have also done their fair share of damage as well which many have highlighted on this thread.
You'll note that I included the end of the Cold War (though in somewhat different terms) in the original post that I copied into this thread.

"The Berlin Wall coming down and the collapse of Communism in Russia were huge accomplishments under Republican leadership. And obviously there is a degree of benefit Americans get from those kinds of events."

But it didn't make my final list, only because it wasn't "betterment of American lives" specific.

I'm not convinced that the idea that we're safer today because we became a superpower in the '80s is necessarily true. I mean, look at the most prominent thing in our conversation over the past 9 years -- terrorism and our safety.

I take issue with Republicans eliminating government bureaucracy. Government and the resulting bureaucracy grew more under George W. Bush than under any president in history. Do you have some specific examples that might convince me?

And we may just have to agree to disagree about their contribution to the "free market" being a good thing overall. The abuses that they allowed by repealing so much of the regulation that Democrats put in place is the primary reason we're in the economic pickle we're in right now!
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,096 posts, read 4,690,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
Welfare was necesary at the time of its creation. Ever heard of the Great Depression? Have you ever met anyone who survived it? Welfare since has had its problems, and guess what? There have been 5 Republicans presidents since and guess how many have done anything to fix it? There's been 1 president that has made substantial reform of it, and guess what party he was a member of?
Do you really think the great depression was fixed by anything the democrats did? Most believe the great depression was worsened by the economic policies of FDR. Half of the new deal programs were deemed unconstitutional. FDR just kept raising taxes, which you should never do in an economic crisis. The great depression was a bad time, but almost half of all Americans were unaffected by it, in the same way that the majority of Americans havn't really been affected by this recession. It mostly hit the bankers and stockholders. What worsened the great depression was the dust bowl(a very bad drought). Which ravaged much of the farmland in the heartland in this country, especially Oklahoma. A large amount of Oklahomans picked up and moved west to California(grapes of wrath style).

The reason welfare and things like the minimum wage seemed necessary is because the federal government was trying desperately to stabilize food prices. There was a story of a man with sheep where the price had dropped so low, he wasn't going to make enough money off the sale of the sheep to pay to feed them through the winter. He didn't want to watch them starve to death. So he shot them in the head one by one and pushed them down a canyon.

The way the federal government stabilized food prices was by creating the department of agriculture. Whose job it was to pay farmers to not grow crops, and to buy out certain crops and burn them to stabilize supply and demand, and therefore bring up the price. And btw, it still does these things. Farm subsidies cost this country billions a year, one of these subsidies goes to corn to make ethanol. And my grandfather was paid yearly to not grow wheat on his farm, so he took the subsidy and grew corn, to make double profits.

Its funny because when social security was put in place, it exempted all farm workers. It was primarily put in place because many banks had gone under and peoples life savings had been lost(and also retirement accounts based in stocks). So many people who had worked all their lives had nothing.

It was not meant to be a replacement to standard investments. And social security pays far less than practically any other kind of retirement plan. Of course, its guaranteed to pay, at least until the social security fund gets raided by the government constantly to pay for other programs, and finally collapses.

Looking back do you really think any of these programs were in any way "necessary"? Although I do think FDIC is a good government program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
To be fair, Republicans have achieved a lot. They helped end the Cold War. They improved our nation's defense in the 1980's to the point that we became the overwhelming and most powerful super power in the world with the world's strongest defense. You might take that for granted but all of us are certainly safer as a result of these actions by Republicans. Republicans have also eliminated government bureacracy and spurred the free makets. One reason the 1990's were so successful was because the Republican controlled House and Senate removed regulation, freed and increased access to capital which helped propel the dot.com economy. But I agree the Republicans have also done their fair share of damage as well which many have highlighted on this thread.

I'm a Republican but I'm a Regan Republican and not this Evangelical/Bush version that permeates this forum.
They helped end the cold war? Do you honestly believe the cold war wouldn't have ended on its own? Communism is a failed ideology, because it doesn't incentivize hard work and innovation, therefore the economy will always stagnate. The reason the Soviet Union seemed to grow so quickly whereever it spread was because of industrialization. Those countries started out being heavily agricultural. When the Soviet Union came in, they invested and industrialized them. The movement of peasants from the farms to the cities created huge economic growth. The problem is, under an inefficient centralized system, there isn't competition so there isn't pressure for innovation and efficiency. Many times there is no effort even put in to maintain the current industries. And without incentives for innovation or hard work, people always do the very least required to get paid. Once the commies were done industrializing a country, and once they had basically "run out" of peasants to bring in for economic growth, their economy stagnated heavily. What finally killed them was when Russia's oil production dropped by 30% in a single year. Russia had long been the primary source of energy for the soviet union.

In fact, I would blame American direct involvement in Korea and Vietnam(and even WWII) for much of the spread and stability of communism. The way the soviets were able to exploit their people to work harder, was primarily through a combination of "the greatness of the Soviet Union"(like the constant red square military marches) and secondly by creating an enemy of the West. The west and capitalism was made the enemy of communism, and it was depicted in much the same way we depicted communism, as an evil that was trying to spread. And conflicts like Korea and Vietnam and the West's direct involvement created a propaganda piece of how the West was trying to spread capitalism and block communism.

The only American policy that was brilliant was probably the Marshall plan. Because the way to stop communism was through pre-industrialization and buildup of a country's economy. Not through occupation. America should have also created a Marshall plan for southeast Asia and the Middle-east. It could have prevented the deaths of millions.

And all of this is only if you believe we should have ever joined WWII in the first place(and Britain also). I mean, which side would you choose? Socialists or Communists? Because practically the entire west are now socialists(and remember, Stalin and Mao killed more people directly than Hitler could have ever dreamed of).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
I asked a similar question in another thread this morning. There's been little to no real reply there, either.

Now, Mike was kind enough to remind me of the Interstate Highway System instituted by Eisenhower, and the role Republicans played in the Civil Rights Act, even though it was at Johnson's insistence that the legislation was enacted (though I countered that the ball really got rolling with benefits from the New Deal and advocacy by Eleanor Roosevelt).

JerseyG reminds us that a Republican appointed the first female to the Supreme Court, which is definitely a major contribution, so that will go in the credit column, as well. The contention that the appointment of the first black Secretary of State is in any way a significant accomplishment that led to a better society is dubious at best, and while ending the Viet Nam war was indeed an accomplishment, I don't think it belongs in a list of accomplishments that were supported, instituted and shepherded through as legislation for the betterment of society, or landmark appointments that have directly affected the way legislation is upheld, like the other things on the list.

And the last one is nothing but a partisan jab with no real merit.

So Republicans get credit for Interstate Highways, shared credit for the Civil Rights Act, and credit for appointing the first woman to the Supreme Court. That still pales in comparison to the hard work on behalf of working Americans that Democrats have put in, and the resulting legislation that has proven to improve the lives of every citizen.

And we're about to get Health Care Reform that will ultimately benefit working Americans, as well, no thanks at all to Republicans who've done absolutely everything within their power to destroy it at every turn.

It's clear to me from these accomplishments, what Democrats stand for and how they've fought to improve American lives. I still have no clue what Republicans stand for and how they want to make my life better. No clue.
I am not a big fan of the Civil rights movement. I don't quite understand why southern Blacks didn't just move to the northern states to avoid being treated as second-class citizens. During WWII there was the great migration where huge numbers of blacks moved north. Was it really necessary to involve the federal government and to abuse the commerce clause of the constitution to force the civil-rights movement?

Why can't people understand, there are 50 states in this country. If you don't like what one of them is doing, LEAVE. No one is forcing you to stay. Stop trying to force the whole damn country to be like you. Does anyone even know what the "UNITED STATES" even means? A state is basically a country. The United States are basically a group of UNITED COUNTRIES represented as a single nation. Why can't people seem to understand that as they force control of the entire country into the hands of Washington DC. If we are going to have a centralized government running everything, please lets just rename the country. Because being called the UNITED STATES is obviously a fallacy. Lets just rename ourselves just America or corporateville or something.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-08-2010 at 01:43 AM..
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 4,968,747 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Do you really think the great depression was fixed by anything the democrats did? Most believe the great depression was worsened by the economic policies of FDR. Half of the new deal programs were deemed unconstitutional. FDR just kept raising taxes, which you should never do in an economic crisis. The great depression was a bad time, but almost half of all Americans were unaffected by it, in the same way that the majority of Americans havn't really been affected by this recession. It mostly hit the bankers and stockholders. What worsened the great depression was the dust bowl(a very bad drought). Which ravaged much of the farmland in the heartland in this country, especially Oklahoma. A large amount of Oklahomans picked up and moved west to California(grapes of wrath style).
Yea it was. Besides all of FDR's social programs, WWII was probably the decisive factor. Not sure if he spoke for all, but a certain Republican named Prescott Bush advocated staying out of the war. And "half of Americans were unaffected by the Great Depression" is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this site. You realize everyone was effected by it? Working class people had no money, local businesses and corporations didn't have clients and it kept spiraling. And I know those weren't just bankers and stockholders living in Hoovervilles. If not for FDR and his programs, it would've gotten a lot worse before it got better. And not sure who you've been hanging around with, but most Americans and people who understand history and/or economics believe FDR and his policies were generally effectice.

Quote:
The reason welfare and things like the minimum wage seemed necessary is because the federal government was trying desperately to stabilize food prices. There was a story of a man with sheep where the price had dropped so low, he wasn't going to make enough money off the sale of the sheep to pay to feed them through the winter. He didn't want to watch them starve to death. So he shot them in the head one by one and pushed them down a canyon.

The way the federal government stabilized food prices was by creating the department of agriculture. Whose job it was to pay farmers to not grow crops, and to buy out certain crops and burn them to stabilize supply and demand, and therefore bring up the price. And btw, it still does these things. Farm subsidies cost this country billions a year, one of these subsidies goes to corn to make ethanol. And my grandfather was paid yearly to not grow wheat on his farm, so he took the subsidy and grew corn, to make double profits.
I'd really like to see a figure displaying how Americans pay billions a year on subsidies. And keep in mind this kept farmers in business at the time. Another accomplishment by the DNC

Quote:
Its funny because when social security was put in place, it exempted all farm workers. It was primarily put in place because many banks had gone under and peoples life savings had been lost(and also retirement accounts based in stocks). So many people who had worked all their lives had nothing.
And for the most part it's allowed hard-working people to be able to retire comfortably. Another DNC accomplishment

Quote:
It was not meant to be a replacement to standard investments. And social security pays far less than practically any other kind of retirement plan. Of course, its guaranteed to pay, at least until the social security fund gets raided by the government constantly to pay for other programs, and finally collapses.
That's theoretical hogwash the Glenn Beck types want you to believe.

Quote:
Looking back do you really think any of these programs were in any way "necessary"?
Considering countless more people would've starved to death and lots of businesses may never have recovered, the bank industry would've been screwed, people could've never retired, yes. Besides, his plans worked out a little better than Hoover and his policies after the crash.

Quote:
The only American policy that was brilliant was probably the Marshall plan. Because the way to stop communism was through pre-industrialization and buildup of a country's economy. Not through occupation. America should have also created a Marshall plan for southeast Asia and the Middle-east. It could have prevented the deaths of millions.
And guess who orchestrated the Marshall Plan? Truman. And guess was party he belonged to?

Quote:
I am not a big fan of the Civil rights movement. I don't quite understand why southern Blacks didn't just move to the northern states to avoid being treated as second-class citizens. During WWII there was the great migration where huge numbers of blacks moved north. Was it really necessary to involve the federal government and to abuse the commerce clause of the constitution to force the civil-rights movement?
Just when I thought nothing could top your "TGD only effected bankers and stockholders" statement. The north for a while was just as bad as the south in terms of treatment of blacks. Ever heard of the bussing riots in Boston? The de facto racial wars of Philadelphia? Add in the facts blacks had lived in the south for centuries as well as their families, cities in the north were vastly overcrowded, and the treatment was arguably just as bad as down south.
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