U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-06-2010, 04:00 PM
 
3,288 posts, read 3,968,889 times
Reputation: 816

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I think that the real reason was the same thing that caused the loss of farming jobs from 1800, about 97%, to the present day 3%. That was technology and we have only one way to move away from that. Reverse our technology and hope for the best is the way.

Walter E. Williams : Untrue Beliefs - Townhall.com
As a software engineer I apologize for technology removing back breaking busy work and handing that over to robots so that we can actually advance as a society.

Back to the fields with you all!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-06-2010, 04:45 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,328,017 times
Reputation: 4002
There are a lot of misconceptions in this thread. First of all, the US remains by far the world's largest manufacturing economy. It is no longer true that adding the second and third largest (China and Japan) is still smaller than the US, and it's also true that the US share of total manufacturing by the 12 largest manufacturing economies has slipped from 28% in 1990 to 24% in 2008, but we are still by a long way the king of the world manufacturing hill.

People complain that our manufacturing jobs have been lost. This is true. US manufacturing employment is down by well over three million since 1990. So is everyone else's. China for instance has lost more than fourteen million manufacturing jobs since they reached their peak in the mid-1990's. World manufacturing employment has declined by 15-20% since 1990 (making the US about average), yet manufacturing output has soared. The only major manufacturing economy that added manufacturing jobs over this interval was Taiwan, and its increase was small.

Make of the data what you will, but one thing is certain. Much of what you read in the popular press about US loss of manufacturing is at best misleading.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 09:47 PM
 
631 posts, read 799,822 times
Reputation: 257
What caused the loss of mfg. jobs? Greed more than anything else IMO.

According to the conservative links it took over 200 yrs. for agr. to go from 90% of the workforce to 3%
but it took only 31yrs. for the US to lose 40% of its mfg. capacity.

Once the MBA's discovered they could offshore & outsource--make the stockholders gleeful and feather their nests to the tune of incredable compensation figures and ONLY have the disgruntlement of ordinary middle-class workers to contend with, the flood gates opened.

Little gray matter is required to grasp that creating competition between workers making a pittance to those earning a living wage would greatly enhance profits. Any fool can do it with proper authority. Never mind the fact that the workers are from different countries with different currencies, economies, laws and values. Never mind the fact that we have trade policies that favor the foreign goods nearly 5 to 1 and the absence of realistic tarrifs, plus a terrible trade deficit.

What matters in America is that the big boys get their bread. If it shrinks the middle-class so be it--management types have complained for years when people of the rank and file aquired things of REAL value.

As far as advanced technology goes MUCH could have been done to TRANSITION the workers. Obviously that would have taken the (dreaded by some) gov't. to induce. Instead the workers were run into the wall and now many earn a fraction of their former wages at humiliating jobs. Others now have the higher tech versions of the former jobs in many cases.

Frankly, I see these happenings as class warfare and greed (directly & indirectly) as much as some other factors that were mentioned. While for some regulation is a dirty word, it will take much of it and more before the ship is rightened.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 09:50 PM
 
15,062 posts, read 19,628,583 times
Reputation: 12219
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I think that the real reason was the same thing that caused the loss of farming jobs from 1800, about 97%, to the present day 3%. That was technology and we have only one way to move away from that. Reverse our technology and hope for the best is the way.

Walter E. Williams : Untrue Beliefs - Townhall.com
100% false,
computer and internet have increased companies productivity to ridiculous levels.
Based on the republicans philosophy we should be making more money, since the companies are more productive.

I'm still waiting for my trickle down check.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 09:55 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,173 posts, read 33,593,322 times
Reputation: 14146
I'll say it again... all this crap started when they eliminated trade tariffs.
Our past history and legislators knew, we could not compete and maintain a sovereign nation and the American lifestyle, with free trade. The reason trade tariffs were made law.

Our past legislators, knew something to keep America, America, for Americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,886 posts, read 102,301,239 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
How insulting

Why dont we all just become doctors also. Wait then we wouldnt have anyone to fix our dinner at Dennys or we cant get the fries to go with the shake from McDonalds

You need to throw out your computer, Tv and many machines that those in manufacturing put together so you can wish they become jobless
Where do you think your computer, TV and other machines were manufactured? Most are made in China or Korea or somewhere else overseas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 10:15 PM
 
5,155 posts, read 4,654,879 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I'll say it again... all this crap started when they eliminated trade tariffs.
Our past history and legislators knew, we could not compete and maintain a sovereign nation and the American lifestyle, with free trade. The reason trade tariffs were made law.

Our past legislators, knew something to keep America, America, for Americans.
And there are many who agree with you.

"China and Japan have continued to buy U.S. debt, not because they are impressed with Silicon Valley's growth potential, but in order to cripple American manufacturing by keeping the dollar artificially high and the yuan and the yen artificially low. Their debt purchases are part of their strategic industrial policies on behalf of their own export-oriented manufacturers, not a vote of confidence in future American economic dynamism."

"But more widespread unionization is opposed by the corporate sponsors of the New Democrats. And while progressives spend oceans of ink on the effects of outsourcing on the small number of workers in the manufacturing sector, they are silent about the effects of mass unskilled immigration on the much greater number of low-wage workers in the domestic service sector."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 10:15 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,688,108 times
Reputation: 18036
Bascaiully manufacturing jobs in many areas of induictry have beeen dying out for years in this country. We have been warned for years that the thrid world was catching upand would quaickly be able to do thsoe type jobs. that and automation have weighted heavily for years as labor just became too expensive to compete in this country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 10:38 PM
 
267 posts, read 248,287 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I'll say it again... all this crap started when they eliminated trade tariffs.
Our past history and legislators knew, we could not compete and maintain a sovereign nation and the American lifestyle, with free trade. The reason trade tariffs were made law.

Our past legislators, knew something to keep America, America, for Americans.
Ehh, I don't think that the tariff was that high so as to keep business here. Remember that after WWII, our competitors were literally bombed into submission and industry wasn't going to the Soviet Union, so it came here. Then, when those countries were rebuilt, they came back into the marketplace.

I'd say the problem today lies with our corporate tax structure. It's complicated and it's the second-highest in the world (35% + state tax rates), with Japan just beating us at 39.5%. Ireland, on the other hand, is one of the lowest, at 12.5%, which is much more reasonable. I think that would be a much more acceptable rate.

Another option is to simply ditch the corporate tax altogether and replace it with a VAT. This would be a bit more flexible and it would also stop our exports from being taxed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 28,133,844 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee View Post
As a software engineer I apologize for technology removing back breaking busy work and handing that over to robots so that we can actually advance as a society.

Back to the fields with you all!
Did you notice something in that article that seems to have slid under the radar here about the fact that our manufacturing sector created as much wealth as the fourth highest nation in the world, Germany, and wasn't very far behind Japan? It seems to me that most, especially Democrats refuse to look at the fact that it is unions that did the most to drive jobs out and forced the increased need of technology which is cheaper in the long run than a bunch of union members.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top