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The Nazis were a socialist party, not very right wing at all.
As to the patriot bill, when the lives of thousands of people are on the line after a vicious attack, some people can get over emotional and stray from their ideological principles, just look at your example of the patriot act or even democrats voting to give Bush permission to go to war with Saddam. I never give much weight to isolated examples where people stray from their principles and beliefs, no one is perfect; and definitely not politicians in Washington.
BTW, this entire discussion was one started between me and GregW over his comment that he was believed in conservative socialism, which is some new form of socialism, and his description of it looked like a new type of fascism to me.
Yeah, i saw that. Glenn Beck said Fannie and Freddy were each asking for $400 billion in bailouts last month, this will increase the deficit, and cause more problems, Barney Frank must be ecstatic, and just see the little fat man dancing in the isles. bush tried to rein in fannie and Freddy about a dozen times, and 0bama just cut the reins and set them free to trash our economy again.
Thank you. Yes, Glenn Beck, who claims to be a true conservative, said on his show that he supported the bail-outs and feared that the amount was not enough. He wanted more. He is exactly the kind of fake conservative I am talking about. And right after the election he did the 180 turn and started to oppose them.
So, do you believe that republican hands are squeaky clean too?
I don't, and I never said I did. I will point out, however, that for many years, Republicans in Congress as a rule have been saying that Fannie & Freddie are broken, need more oversight and less freedom, while Democrats in Congress as a rule (and in particular Chris Dodd & Barney Frank) have pushed those concerns away, insisting that these institutions are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
You point the finger at the Obama Administration, but fail to mention that the WSJ doesn't?
I posted the link to the article as a reliable source of facts. I don't particularly care at whom the Journal "points the finger" as I can form my own opinion as to who did this. I find it funny, though, that you can read that article, which calls it the treasury departments action "the Christmas Eve Masacre", and which says
Quote:
Unlimited bailouts will now allow the Treasury to keep them in conservatorship, which means they can help to conserve the Democratic majority in Congress by increasing their role in housing finance. With the Federal Reserve planning to step back as early as March from buying $1.25 trillion in mortgage-backed securities, Team Obama is counting on Fan and Fred to help reflate the housing bubble.
and say they aren't pointing the finger at the Obama administration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
And, since you're a real estate agent or broker, you should be glad this is happening, after all, you'll be able to sell another property.
First, I don't need you to tell me of what I should or should not be glad. I can always sell another house. Fewer in some years than in others, but always enough. That's not going to be changed by allowing Fannie & Freddie to steal more taxpayer money to stay afloat & buy more votes for the party in power.
In my lifetime, I've found that the ones who squeal the loudest are the ones who are FOR something, rather than against it.
I believe only a handful of banks have repaid TARP.
Average salary of a real estate agent is $50,000.00, more than min wage. I'd say you could afford to buy your own health care and insurance as long as you're not trying to impress someone else by driving a Hummer.
I don't make a salary at all, I earn commissions based on performance. But that's not relevant, and I'm curious to know why you would bother bringing my earnings into the discussion at all.
Last edited by Bill Keegan; 01-07-2010 at 09:55 AM..
Reason: typos
Yeah, i saw that. Glenn Beck said Fannie and Freddy were each asking for $400 billion in bailouts last month, this will increase the deficit, and cause more problems, Barney Frank must be ecstatic, and just see the little fat man dancing in the isles. bush tried to rein in fannie and Freddy about a dozen times, and 0bama just cut the reins and set them free to trash our economy again.
It's actually worse than $400billion. When they were originaly bailed out in 2008, the funds were capped at $200billion. In 2009, the Treasury Department increased the cap to $400billion. On Christmas Eve, they removed all caps, making the total amount borrawable by these failing dinosaurs unlimited & unknowable.
Thank you. Yes, Glenn Beck, who claims to be a true conservative, said on his show that he supported the bail-outs and feared that the amount was not enough. He wanted more. He is exactly the kind of fake conservative I am talking about. And right after the election he did the 180 turn and started to oppose them.
I don't know much about Beck to comment on that, but I did catch that show in Dec '09, and kept my eye out for an $800 billion bailout from 0bama. Guess 0bama decided, why pigeon hole F&F with only $800 billion.
I don't, and I never said I did. I will point out, however, that for many years, Republicans in Congress as a rule have been saying that Fannie & Freddie are broken, need more oversight and less freedom, while Democrats in congress as a rule, (and in particular, Chriss Dodd & Barney Frank) have pushed those concerns away, insisting that these institutions are fine.
I posted the link to the article as a reliable source of facts. I don't particularly care who the Journal "points the finger at" as I can form my own opinion as to who did tis. I find it funny, though, that you can read that article, which calls it the treasury departments action "the Christmas Eve Masacre", and which says and say they aren't pointing the finger at the Obama administration.
First, I don't need you to tell me of what I should or should not be glad. I can always sell another house. Fewer in some years than in others, but always enough. That's not going to be changed by allowing Fannie & Freddie to steal more taxpayer money to stay afloat & buy more votes for the party in power.
I don't make a salary at all, I earn commissions based on performance. But that's not relevant, and I'm curious to know why you would bother bringing my earnings into the discussion at all.
I was getting the drift you were blaming the obama admin for this financial mess.
Discussing your salary? it was a caveat because you sounded like you were whining about this administration's decisions. In fact, it was the treasury department who decided finally. see below.
Quote:
But Garrett’s press secretary Erica Elliott speculated about the real reason for the action and the timing.
“Treasury had open-ended authority granted from Housing and Economic Recovery Act (HERA) that was set to expire at the end of 2009 – which partially explains the timing of their actions,†she said, adding that it was her understanding that Treasury officials had been debating for some time whether they would “extend†and “expand†the bailout.
“They were afraid that if they didn’t extend their authority by the end of the year (when they would lose it) and the housing market worsened, they would have to come back to a bail-out fatigued Congress,†she explained.
On Dec. 30, Garrett and Bachus sent a letter to Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the Financial Services Committee, demanding that he investigate the Dec. 24, 2009 bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie. When asked if Frank had agreed to a hearing, Elliott told CNSNews.com, “We have yet to get a response from Chairman Frank’s office.â€
So, you see, if the fannie & freddie thing would have ended, who is to say if they'd need more or not?
Dodd has been mum about this recently.
Now, back to topic....I really do not beleive conservatives are as conservative as they pretend to be. And I'm still wondering, why nobody went and protested the spending of the last administration like they're doing with Obama now? This stuff didn't occur on his watch. I really see some disparity here. If people want to protest against government policy, where were they during the bush admin.? I guess people must have thought he was doing the right thing?
I suppose you are trying to say racial bigotry is a right wing thing now?
No, not really, but it sort of looks like it, or does it? Do you associate the nazi flag with the confederate one as right?
How did you get right wing out of a picture of a flag anyway?
Subliminal messaging?
Did you read the items I copied and pasted? Pertaining to fascist, then you said neo-fascist...
Am I correct to think that you think this administration is either one?
So, which is it? communism, fascism, socialism, what?
As far as I can tell, none of my constitutional rights have been stripped yet. have yours?
I was getting the drift you were blaming the obama admin for this financial mess.
I'm not blaming the Obama administration for the mess, but I am pointing out where I think they are screwing up. And the "Christmas Eve Masacre" is an EPIC screw up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
Discussing your salary? it was a caveat because you sounded like you were whining about this administration's decisions.
First, I don't whine. I was attempting a civil discussion. If you can't do that without resorting to condescension and name calling, let me know and I'll step away. Still I can't see how my earnings would be germaine to the discussion. Does being moderately successful disqualify one from criticizing the President?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
In fact, it was the treasury department who decided finally. see below.
Is the Treasury department not part of the administration? Did President Obama not appoint Mr. Geitner as Secretary of the Treasury? This is FIRMLY part of the Obama Administration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
Now, back to topic....I really do not beleive conservatives are as conservative as they pretend to be. And I'm still wondering, why nobody went and protested the spending of the last administration like they're doing with Obama now? This stuff didn't occur on his watch. I really see some disparity here. If people want to protest against government policy, where were they during the bush admin.? I guess people must have thought he was doing the right thing?
More likely you weren't listening, or are pretending now to have not seen it. Many conservatives, including myself, and even many Republicans (whom I do not think are always as conservative as they ought to be) were vocally opposed to the bailouts as thery were being discussed and approved by President Bush and his administration. The votes were posted for review by someone earlier in this thread, but yo seem to want to ignore that set of facts.
I'm not blaming the Obama administration for the mess, but I am pointing out where I think they are screwing up. And the "Christmas Eve Masacre" is an EPIC screw up.
First, I don't whine. I was attempting a civil discussion. If you can't do that without resorting to condescension and name calling, let me know and I'll step away. Still I can't see how my earnings would be germaine to the discussion. Does being moderately successful disqualify one from criticizing the President?
Is the Treasury department not part of the administration? Did President Obama not appoint Mr. Geitner as Secretary of the Treasury? This is FIRMLY part of the Obama Administration.
More likely you weren't listening, or are pretending now to have not seen it. Many conservatives, including myself, and even many Republicans (whom I do not think are always as conservative as they ought to be) were vocally opposed to the bailouts as thery were being discussed and approved by President Bush and his administration. The votes were posted for review by someone earlier in this thread, but yo seem to want to ignore that set of facts.
Once again, did you read the post of where I copied and pasted about the TREASURY DEPARTMENT?
Do you agree with the philosophy of doing nothing, or doing something. Jeez, I didn't call you any names. My remarks weren't condescending either. You do seem to be blaming Obama for something here.
Quote:
But Garrett’s press secretary Erica Elliott speculated about the real reason for the action and the timing.
“Treasury had open-ended authority granted from Housing and Economic Recovery Act (HERA) that was set to expire at the end of 2009 – which partially explains the timing of their actions,” she said, adding that it was her understanding that Treasury officials had been debating for some time whether they would “extend” and “expand” the bailout.
“They were afraid that if they didn’t extend their authority by the end of the year (when they would lose it) and the housing market worsened, they would have to come back to a bail-out fatigued Congress,” she explained.
On Dec. 30, Garrett and Bachus sent a letter to Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the Financial Services Committee, demanding that he investigate the Dec. 24, 2009 bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie. When asked if Frank had agreed to a hearing, Elliott told CNSNews.com, “We have yet to get a response from Chairman Frank’s office.”
And once again, not all liberals like or agree with President Obama's decisions either.
Last edited by Hombre57; 01-07-2010 at 11:07 AM..
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