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Old 01-07-2010, 02:32 PM
 
6,966 posts, read 5,405,233 times
Reputation: 2768

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
Ray, a consent form is most likely a legal document. The people who are obtaining the signature on a legal document have a responsibility to make sure that the person signs in the correct place.....or in ALL the correct places......if they want the protection that legal document affords them. If that hospital was so poorly run that they just basically dropped off that form and left their responsibilities up to that woman, then they most definitely deserve whatever they get. I'm sure that their medical malpractice carrier would not look kindly upon that kind of procedure and irresponsibility by hospital personnel.

Also, IF the woman lacked the higher order thinking skills that would enable her to read carefully or follow directions, then that too would benefit her in this situation. If you do not have the capacity to understand what you are signing when you give consent for surgery, then you cannot possibly be responsible for that decision. Even in criminal cases, defendants with low IQ, learning disabilities, etc., cannot waive their miranda rights unless those rights have been thoroughly explained to them in a way that they understand what is meant.
My husband just had elective surgery on Tuesday. I went with him when he was pre-admitted to the hospital last week. He spoke with at least three people - a doctor, a pre-admit clerk, and a nurse, and had to sign multiple forms. It doesn't take a low IQ or a learning disability to make a mistake, just someone who is not paying attention or who is not reading carefully. It is not the hospital's responsibility to determine competence - if you look/sound like you know what you are doing, they're going to pass you along. Perhaps this lady's doctor discussed a tubal ligation with her and perhaps he thought she was considering his (most likely) strong suggestion that she have this procedure done. And, perhaps, there was a consent form in her packet of forms.

If all my perhaps' are not the case, then the doctor is in the wrong.

However wrong he might be, the taxpayers of Mass. should send him a big thank you note...
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:33 PM
 
3,854 posts, read 3,733,981 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights View Post
This woman has been sitting on her butt for 21 years now, making sure that she always has one below the legal age to go to school . This is an old welfare ploy and I saw it many many times when my father made housecalls.

Maybe there cannot be a sterilisation done, but there should be a limit of one or two children for welfare benefits. Several of her children are not with her but I do not know the issues. However, 8 different fathers? I read the article and she was whining, "I take care of my kids". No you may have physical custody of some of them, but it is the TAXPAYER who has fed, clothed and housed them."
Why is this person not REQUIRED to get job training and once the youngest is in school, she MUST get a job or lose benefits. Hmm. A job. Now that would, I imagine, be a novel experience for her. 35 years old and never worked a day in her life. She should be ashamed.

She may have a case. I'm not a legal expert, but if she does and she wins, every penny should be paid back to social services. Then she can go get a job like most single mothers are forced to do--or are willing because they weren't taught to sponge off the welfare teat. She's not sick. I've taken care of non-HL patients and none of them looked hale and hearty the way she does. Nor if she had chemo would she be having healthy baby after healthy baby.

I think a lot of the talk on here is frustration with a system that will not provide when working and working poor need help, but sit on your rear and whelp a gaggle of bastards and the state will give you everything you want/need. This has to stop.
So if a person has more than two children, you want to PUNISH the innocent children? Is that it?

Are there any laws on the books which require people who have been on public assistance and suddenly have a windfall (like winning the lottery, for example) must pay the government all the money they received during the time they were in poverty and receiving public assistance? If not, and you want to see that kind of law in place, perhaps you should get out and actually work to see that kind of law enacted.

So as for the SSI she receives for the non-Hodgkins lymphoma, YOU are positive she is not sick and doesn't deserve it just be looking at some photographs which may not be current. Well, considering your level of expertise, why don't you alert Social Security so that you can make sure that stop sending her those checks?

Talk is cheap.

I have seen some absolutely amazingly judgmental and AUTHORITARIAN posts in this thread today! It's stunning that there is so much crap posted on this board about individual freedoms, but at the drop of a hat soooo many people are willing to lower that AUTHORITARIAN BOOM on the hated underclass. It's easy to hate those who have less than you do, in terms of money and ability. It's easy to pass judgment on others when you are so full of hatred and anger.

THINK ABOUT IT. Do you want your government REQUIRING you to be sterlized, requiring you to go to school and do whatever the GOVERNMENT wants simply because you may have landed in difficult circumstances? Do you guys realize that what you are advocating for this woman would happen to you if you lost your job or your home, etc., etc., through no fault of your own? Even if she has chosen to live life the way she has, when you start cramming government REQUIREMENTS down the throats of the poor, it is only a matter of time before it gets to you.......for all of you who are such big INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS folks.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Goodyear, AZ
41 posts, read 47,323 times
Reputation: 27
I don't have that problem because I kept my legs closed and worked for a living. I am tired of broodsows getting welfare and my partner who works but cannot afford insurance cannot even get a scrip for her seizure medicine. I'm tired of paying for women like this who make a career of popping out one after another. Sorry if that offends you.

This woman has no self-control and if she is too ignorant to know if she signed a consent form, then she should have a guardian. At 14 (oh and I didn't drop out to have a bastard) I could read a form and know whar I was signing. Hell I typed them up. She's smart enough to have a myspace page and sell Avon. Interesting. Well at least her fingers get exercise. That and another part of her body that helps make babies.

The difference is I was not taught that society owed me a damned thing. I was taught to work and I did--work this woman would never do. Hospice, nursing home, eldercare, deli, cashier, babysitter...So before you get uppity with me, my taxes are supporting people like this and I resent it.

When her mother had to take care of several, any subequent children should have been put up for adoption.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:41 PM
 
3,288 posts, read 3,968,889 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights View Post
I don't have that problem because I kept my legs closed and worked for a living. I am tired of broodsows getting welfare and my partner who works but cannot afford insurance cannot even get a scrip for her seizure medicine.

This woman has no self-control and if she is too ignorant to know if she signed a consent form, then she should have a person as a guardian. At 14 (oh and I didn't drop out to have a bastard) I could read a form and know if I was signing them. Hell I typed them up. She's smart enough to have a myspace page and sell Avon. Interesting. Well at least her fingers get exercised.

The difference is I was not taught that society owed me a damned thing. I was taught to work and I did--work this woman would never do. So before you get uppity with me, my taxes are supporting people like this and I resent it.
Were you taught absolutely anything about freedom or are you okay with doctor's doing whatever they want to people that aren't you?

You know what, the doctor's should have just aborted the last 8 children, cause clearly they have more right to make that decision than the mother.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:44 PM
 
3,854 posts, read 3,733,981 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
My husband just had elective surgery on Tuesday. I went with him when he was pre-admitted to the hospital last week. He spoke with at least three people - a doctor, a pre-admit clerk, and a nurse, and had to sign multiple forms. It doesn't take a low IQ or a learning disability to make a mistake, just someone who is not paying attention or who is not reading carefully. It is not the hospital's responsibility to determine competence - if you look/sound like you know what you are doing, they're going to pass you along. Perhaps this lady's doctor discussed a tubal ligation with her and perhaps he thought she was considering his (most likely) strong suggestion that she have this procedure done. And, perhaps, there was a consent form in her packet of forms.

If all my perhaps' are not the case, then the doctor is in the wrong.

However wrong he might be, the taxpayers of Mass. should send him a big thank you note...
In practice and legally the hospital may not be required to be sure that people know what they are doing when they sign those legal documents. However, if there is ever a legal problem, they may very well wish they had been more responsible. These kinds of things can present legal questions and lawsuits.

If in fact the doctor did discuss a tubal ligation with her, and he "thought" she was considering this suggestion, then he certainly needed to have someone make sure there was a SIGNED consent form in the file before he performed that surgery, ESPECIALLY IN A CASE LIKE THIS. Any doctor should be able to see "lawsuit" written all over a situation like this if there was a mistake. If he did not verify that she actually signed a consent form, then he was irresponsible and he will suffer the consequences. Doctors are very well educated, and they have to pay medical malpractice premiums, so for them to make any such "ASSUMPTIONS" is totally irresponsible on their part and I'm sure they know that. That's why this case is now a lawsuit and not just a local dispute between a patient and a hospital/doctor.

Should the taxpayers of Mass. thank this doctor if their private health insurance premiums go up? This situation is a lawsuit. There are legal fees which will have to be paid to defend this case. There may be a big jury award to be paid out by the medical malpractice insurance company. All of that adds to the "cost of care" for everyone.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,847 posts, read 30,269,339 times
Reputation: 22342
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGACK View Post
Public backlash stuns sterilized mother of nine - BostonHerald.com

I have absolutely no sympathy for this woman.
nine children with *at least* three different men (probably a lot more), now "a single mother". OMG, wonder what HER welfare check looks like every month. Probably a lot nicer than MY paltry $9 per hour job.

Dang, it! I could have just sat back with my legs spread, like her and made lots of money!

They should have sterilized her 8 kids ago. I wish i had her number, I'd send her a text too.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:50 PM
 
2,173 posts, read 2,520,925 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
LOl so not what I was expecting when I saw the title welfare queen...they do exist
Which is why I titled it so. I'm fair and balanced that way.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:51 PM
 
3,288 posts, read 3,968,889 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
nine children with *at least* three different men (probably a lot more), now "a single mother". OMG, wonder what HER welfare check looks like every month. Probably a lot nicer than MY paltry $9 per hour job.

Dang, it! I could have just sat back with my legs spread, like her and made lots of money!

They should have sterilized her 8 kids ago. I wish i had her number, I'd send her a text too.

20yrsinBranson
If you think it's so great I say go for it. What's stopping you?
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:52 PM
 
369 posts, read 680,614 times
Reputation: 442
Joint Commission Standards for all surgical procedures must have documented informed consent. Procedures will not take place without a signed consent prior to arrival in the OR. Joint Commission Standards have required a "Time Out" before any procedure begins to double check that the consent is signed, it is the right procedure, it is the right site (left vs right, arm vs leg, etc), it is the right prep, it is the right anesthesia (local vs spinal vs general etc.), the right patient , and others.

The bottom line is the cascade of errors for this to have been done sans consent would be extreme. She would had this explained by a floor nurse, the surgeon, the primary physician, the OR circulating nurse. I'm not buying the no consent.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 29,984,374 times
Reputation: 32387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights View Post
I don't think that's her.
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