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Old 01-07-2010, 08:47 PM
 
369 posts, read 680,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
If she didn't know what she was signing, then she could not possibly have given free consent to perform the surgery because she didn't understand "know" what the form meant. Doctors and hospital screwed again.
Not quite. Joint Commission Standards require that consent be informed. That means the hospital must not just hand a form over and have it signed. The surgeon must explain every procedure in plain language. If the patient cannot read it must be read to them. If they can not speak English it must be translated for them. Most every hospital has a phone translation service for languages that are uncommon. So when a consent is done it must have been explained prior to medications and to the patient or guardian. Once again, the consent must be verified by the staff in the OR suite prior to start of procedure and steps must be taken and documented so it is verified it' the right, patient, the right procedure, the right prep, the right consent. All this must be documented and is often double documented.

The Joint Commission is very strict on these standards.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:48 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 29,984,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyegirl View Post
Is it not possible that she found out it had been lost and decided to use this situation for her benefit? I absolutely believe the Dr/hospital could have made a mistake, but it seems unlikely. Her situation has nothing to do with the consent form...other than she should have consented about 6 kids back. We as a society, who pay her bills thank you very much, SHOULD have say in how many kids she has. When she feeds, clothes and houses those kids, then she can decide.
that's exactly what I said in the other thread!
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:57 PM
 
1,914 posts, read 3,122,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
I don't think "we" as a society are paying her bills EXCLUSIVELY because of the number of children she has. From reading the article, it appears that she is getting SSI because of a disability she has......and maybe some sort of public assistance for TWO of her 9 children.
Her disability is being too STUPID to understand when enough is enough.

Quote:
Well, of course it's "possible" that she found out they lost the document, however, I really can't imagine how she found out unless they told her. And WHY would they tell her if she had not been inquiring about it in the first place.
Because she's been trying to have #10, #12 and #13 and couldn't?

Quote:
According to the article, she was officially notified that they could not find the signed consent form AFTER her first attorney had made an official records request for it. Have you ever thought that perhaps the woman may have gone to the doctor for a check up because she wanted to have another child with her live-in (common law husband) guy, and at that point discovered that she had been sterilized? And THEN she went to an attorney, and that attorney set out to discover whether or not she had given consent to be sterilized, so he did a records request on her behalf, and received the letter from the hospital saying that they couldn't find one...... THEN EVERYBODY found that that there, in fact, was no signed consent on file. Do you suppose it could have happened that way?
What I suppose is that she is looking for a reality tv show. Seriously, who in their right mind, who can't afford #1-#4 has more? No one but someone who gets attention through being pregnant. No one but someone who really doesn't care about birth control. Yeah, 6 out of her 9 were with "others" that she was in committed relationships with? Who the heck has 6 kids and is looking for love and MORE unprotected sex? Someone who has no job, no care in the world and LIVES off of others who have a clue b/c it's been made THAT easy for her. She should have been involuntarily sterilized years ago.


Quote:
So you would advocate having a strong AUTHORITARIAN government in this country which determines how many children a person can have based on criteria which change such as how much money they have? You like the idea of having GOVERNMENT make those kinds of decisions for individuals? Maybe you should look into how that sort of thing worked in China. Be careful what you wish for.
Give me a break. Mandatory healthcare and unions are no different in the long run. The end all is WHO PAYS FOR IT?? Apparently you do not know so let me tell you: people who KNOW that they can't afford to feed, clothe or send to college more kids than they already have. So they STOP having them in order to NOT end up on public assistance.

She's a pure white trash story. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:01 PM
 
3,854 posts, read 3,733,981 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_c View Post
Not quite. Joint Commission Standards require that consent be informed. That means the hospital must not just hand a form over and have it signed. The surgeon must explain every procedure in plain language. If the patient cannot read it must be read to them. If they can not speak English it must be translated for them. Most every hospital has a phone translation service for languages that are uncommon. So when a consent is done it must have been explained prior to medications and to the patient or guardian. Once again, the consent must be verified by the staff in the OR suite prior to start of procedure and steps must be taken and documented so it is verified it' the right, patient, the right procedure, the right prep, the right consent. All this must be documented and is often double documented.

The Joint Commission is very strict on these standards.
I don't know what the Joint Commission is but BRAVO for them that they have the standards set up!

So how is it possible that surgeons have made mistakes in the past? I rememeber reading about a case where the surgeon amputed the wrong limb on a patient. Are these Joint Commission standards REQUIREMENTS to be followed in every hospital in the country?

And who is The Joint Commission? I know absolutely squat about these kinds of things in the medical field. However, it did seem to me that it would only be common sense that, if you are going to get a legal consent signed for a medical procedure, a legal document which would protect the doctor and hospital if there later turned out to be any change of heart, that the hospital or somebody should verify that the procedure was explained to the patient, and that the patient understood what would happen and then knowingly signed the consent form.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:06 PM
 
3,854 posts, read 3,733,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyG View Post
Her disability is being too STUPID to understand when enough is enough.



Because she's been trying to have #10, #12 and #13 and couldn't?



What I suppose is that she is looking for a reality tv show. Seriously, who in their right mind, who can't afford #1-#4 has more? No one but someone who gets attention through being pregnant. No one but someone who really doesn't care about birth control. Yeah, 6 out of her 9 were with "others" that she was in committed relationships with? Who the heck has 6 kids and is looking for love and MORE unprotected sex? Someone who has no job, no care in the world and LIVES off of others who have a clue b/c it's been made THAT easy for her. She should have been involuntarily sterilized years ago.




Give me a break. Mandatory healthcare and unions are no different in the long run. The end all is WHO PAYS FOR IT?? Apparently you do not know so let me tell you: people who KNOW that they can't afford to feed, clothe or send to college more kids than they already have. So they STOP having them in order to NOT end up on public assistance.

She's a pure white trash story. Nothing more, nothing less.
Based upon reading your long rant about this woman, I'd suggest that perhaps your disability is a very small mind and ignorance....???

"Pure white trash".........now that's really classy and great analysis.

Btw, if the woman was trying to "have #10, 11 and 12" clearly she didn't know she had been sterilized.....If she had given consent, then she would have known better than to try to get pregnant.

Last edited by Austin13; 01-07-2010 at 09:18 PM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:19 PM
 
369 posts, read 680,614 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
I don't know what the Joint Commission is but BRAVO for them that they have the standards set up!

So how is it possible that surgeons have made mistakes in the past? I rememeber reading about a case where the surgeon amputed the wrong limb on a patient. Are these Joint Commission standards REQUIREMENTS to be followed in every hospital in the country?

And who is The Joint Commission? I know absolutely squat about these kinds of things in the medical field. However, it did seem to me that it would only be common sense that, if you are going to get a legal consent signed for a medical procedure, a legal document which would protect the doctor and hospital if there later turned out to be any change of heart, that the hospital or somebody should verify that the procedure was explained to the patient, and that the patient understood what would happen and then knowingly signed the consent form.

It is currently called The Joint Commission. It used to be called Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO),

Any facility that wants to bill Federal or State Medicare, MedCaid etc. is required to have JCAHO accreditation. Most states require it for licensure.
Lost paperwork is why there is documentation / verification that consents were done and signed. JCAHO requires the consent be informed and documented as such. Verification will be documented in the Surgeon's dictation, the nurse's notes and anesthesia record. The signed form isn't necessary to win a defense if the other notes document it was present at the proceedure.


Quite possibly the actual consent was lost during a JCHAO inspection
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:27 PM
 
3,854 posts, read 3,733,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_c View Post
It is currently called The Joint Commission. It used to be called Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO),

Any facility that wants to bill Federal or State Medicare, MedCaid etc. is required to have JCAHO accreditation. Most states require it for licensure.
Lost paperwork is why there is documentation / verification that consents were done and signed. JCAHO requires the consent be informed and documented as such. Verification will be documented in the Surgeon's dictation, the nurse's notes and anesthesia record. The signed form isn't necessary to win a defense if the other notes document it was present at the proceedure.


Quite possibly the actual consent was lost during a JCHAO inspection
Thanks! That's very interesting and valuable information. I agree that having all the other documentation you listed would certainly go a long way on behalf of the defendants!

Is it at all likely or possible that the hospital where the woman's child was delivered and the surgery was performed in Mass would not be accredited? Are there hospitals out there without the JCAHO accreditation? I'd like to be certain I'm never taken to one if they exist!
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:04 PM
 
1,914 posts, read 3,122,596 times
Reputation: 1086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
Based upon reading your long rant about this woman, I'd suggest that perhaps your disability is a very small mind and ignorance....???

"Pure white trash".........now that's really classy and great analysis.

Btw, if the woman was trying to "have #10, 11 and 12" clearly she didn't know she had been sterilized.....If she had given consent, then she would have known better than to try to get pregnant.
BTW....that was my POINT. Idiot woman was probably wondering why she couldn't get preggo for baby #10, #11, #12....speaks to her lack of living in the real world...AFTER have NINE kids she CAN'T afford. Like I said, she should have been sterilized 7 kids ago.

To clue you in, my disability is being old enough to have noticed where my HARD EARNED TAX dollars get spent and how useless the majority who live off it are. And REPEATEDLY useless.

Your disability is obvious.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:08 PM
 
369 posts, read 680,614 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
Thanks! That's very interesting and valuable information. I agree that having all the other documentation you listed would certainly go a long way on behalf of the defendants!

Is it at all likely or possible that the hospital where the woman's child was delivered and the surgery was performed in Mass would not be accredited? Are there hospitals out there without the JCAHO accreditation? I'd like to be certain I'm never taken to one if they exist!

Possible yes, likely no. Mass may be one of the states that require it for obtaining a license. Check your local hospital's website. It should be there. Also watch the newspapers. Often times the hospital will have an open meeting for the public with inspectors when they are due.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:40 PM
 
8,743 posts, read 10,251,401 times
Reputation: 3385
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyG View Post
BTW....that was my POINT. Idiot woman was probably wondering why she couldn't get preggo for baby #10, #11, #12....speaks to her lack of living in the real world...AFTER have NINE kids she CAN'T afford. Like I said, she should have been sterilized 7 kids ago.

To clue you in, my disability is being old enough to have noticed where my HARD EARNED TAX dollars get spent and how useless the majority who live off it are. And REPEATEDLY useless.

Your disability is obvious.
I dont know how I feel about sterilization but for the most part, you are RIGHT ON!

If you have 9 kids you cannot take care of, why have more?

Why should I work hard when I can just get pregnant?
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