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Probably when a person's ability to buy the best house, best car, best food, and best clothes was based upon the money they had.
Decisions on cars, food, clothes, etc. are ones that can be made logically, using an appropriate amount of reason. But you know what? When it's your wife or child that's laying there sick, reason gets thrown out the window. I would pay just about anything and to go into just about any amount of debt to keep my family alive and healthy.
As soon as we put what kind of car we drive on the same moral standard as the health of our families and neighbors, we have slipped morally as a country and people.
Mmmm when didn't care come witha price tag? Was health care free at some point in the past that I missed? Were people billed on their ability to pay? I am not that old so it may have been before my time.
Can someone explain cadillac plans? Is it any good health insurance plan? Is it just PPO's, POS? Are HMO's included? I realize this may sound really dense but I am just trying to figure out if any plan that doesn't have a high deductible is considered cadillac.
jillz
Yes it is. The lower the deductible, the lower the co-pays, the more robust the coverage, the higher the premium. It is just basic economics. What truly frustrates me is that everyone is pointing to insurance companies as the only money-maker in this circle. A radiology practice can invest $5 million in one machine and get it paid off in 5 years or sooner, yet will still charge an extraordinary amount for each treatment. The equipment is now fully depreciated in their books, so their charges after their expenses is pure profit. Physicians and providers pay a huge part of their income for malpractice insurance. Not only have we evolved to be a litigious society as a whole, the government continues to succumb to the legal lobbyists over tort reform. Reducing provider expense will eliminate the reason for outrageous reimbursements to them by the insurance companies. Decreasing the patent period for pharmaceuticals will convert them to non-formulary or generic sooner. Blame those in the government whose pockets are lined and continue to remain part of the elite oligarchy while dressed as public servants.
When we allowed our American ideals of "freedom" to become "freedom to be as rich, greedy, and materialistic as we wanna be, at all costs, and with total disregard to others, the environment, future generations, etc.."... and we became a Corporatocracy.
It became more about money when effective but expensive treatments were discovered. Back not that long ago, there wasn't a whole lot a doctor could do for you unless involved basic drugs or surgery. The advances made since then have come at a cost that is a higher and higher percentage of the average person's income (one reason real wages haven't increased much over the past several years). Eventually we'll get to the point where it costs more to keep someone alive a few extra days than their entire lifetime income. Either we go to a redistributive model, which the current health bill starts to do, or you'll have very different health care for the wealthy versus what's available for the rest of us.
I'm a doctor and I agree the current model doesn't work. Do you think us doctors like it? We hate it too. We want what is best for the patient and we spend nearly half our day wrestiing with insurance companies when that time could better be spend seeing patients. At the same time, we doctors also see the abuse on the other side. A lot of people cheap out and abuse the system by showing up to the ER for minor ailments rather than paying for health insurance. I can't tell you how many gangbangers show up to the ER yet drive a Cadillac Escalade with 22 rims that cost as much as his healthcare.
This is about personal responsibility too. My father made sure I had health insurance at all times because you never know what could happen. It was just a priority in our family. We didn't question it. If meant we didn't take a vacation, drove a less expensive car, lived in a smaller house, then so be it but we didn't go without health insurance. I see so many patients that are on Medicaid yet these families wear expensive jewelry, will drive up in nice cars etc. Health care is just not a priority for many Americans and then when they get ill they suddenly complain that it's so expensive
When did a patient's basic rights to receive and appropriate level of healthcare become solely based on money? When did all of the ethical and moral obligations, the whole Hippocratic Oath, become obsolete? When someone who has become, through no fault of their own, disabled and unable to work or care for themselves, why are they denied any compassion within the healthcare system?
There are several things wrong with your basic premise. First of all, health care is a business just like any other and as such there are major costs associated with its existance and maintenance. All such providers have to spend exhorbitant sums of money to receive the education and training needed to become doctors - all based on money. In the process they usually incur huge debts that must be repaid by their practices. Indigent patients walk into emergency rooms all the time and are treated at no cost to themselves but those unpaid costs have to get covered somehow so those who do have insurance are often footing the bill for those who don't. A huge drain on our medical services in this country is the ever-increasing numbers of illegals who pay nothing for care but are flooding our hospitals daily. My question to you is just who do you suggest should be paying for those who can't pay for themselves? Are you ready to write a check each month to cover the uninsured? Not likely!
Another big part of the problem is that doctors and hospitals are so afraid of being sued if any little thing goes wrong (even if they bear no responsibility for the problem) that they order tests that really aren't necessary "just in case." A friend told me about someone she knew that was travelling in France when she hurt her foot/ankle and was taken to the hospital. They manually felt around, gave her some Tylenol 3 and told her to go home and come back if it didn't improve (it did so she didn't go back). Can you imagine any facility or doctor in this country trying that? No, the patient would be x-rayed, likely get an MRI, be seen by an orthopedic specialist, maybe be admitted for further tests and observation and after all that be sent home having incurred a bill in the many thousands of dollars. We Americans have come to expect such a high level of care for the least little things and that only adds to the problem of skyrocketing costs. Add to that the situation that doctors who see Medicare patients are facing with an upcoming 20% reduction in the reimbursement for those services. How would you feel if you owned a business and after you had set prices on your merchandise the customers tell you they want to buy but will only pay 25% of what you are charging. Medicare providers don't have the option of telling Uncle Sam that they won't accept the lower payment and insist on fair market value. Medicare patients of the future (like next month or so) are going to have a really hard time finding a doctor that will accept new patients. Do you propose telling the doctors to just take the few dollars offered and smile? MEDICINE IS A BUSINESS! Doctors have expensive educations to pay for, offices to set up (furnishings, equipment, utilities etc) and staff to hire and pay (usually including benefits such as contributions to savings plans for employees). They have huge insurance premiums and taxes to pay. And then they have to support themselves and their families. This is a massive financial outlay and just how would you suggest they pay for all this if they offer free medical care to their patients?
Sorry for the long rant and I am climbing off my soapbox now. (My sister is a doctor so I get to see both sides of the problem.)
Yes it is. The lower the deductible, the lower the co-pays, the more robust the coverage, the higher the premium. It is just basic economics. What truly frustrates me is that everyone is pointing to insurance companies as the only money-maker in this circle. A radiology practice can invest $5 million in one machine and get it paid off in 5 years or sooner, yet will still charge an extraordinary amount for each treatment. The equipment is now fully depreciated in their books, so their charges after their expenses is pure profit. Physicians and providers pay a huge part of their income for malpractice insurance. Not only have we evolved to be a litigious society as a whole, the government continues to succumb to the legal lobbyists over tort reform. Reducing provider expense will eliminate the reason for outrageous reimbursements to them by the insurance companies. Decreasing the patent period for pharmaceuticals will convert them to non-formulary or generic sooner. Blame those in the government whose pockets are lined and continue to remain part of the elite oligarchy while dressed as public servants.
Agreed and well said! I would really like patients or people in the public to shadow a doctor for a week. They will see how the legal industry influences how doctors practice. We have to practice defensive medicine. Even if we practice the "standard of care", if an accident occurs, you will be sued and a malpractice attorney will ask why you didn't order every test possible to ensure your patient's safety. The general public has no idea how common doctors face malpractice. In medical school the tell students "It's not if you will be sued, it's when you will be sued" It's gotten so bad that all of us assume we will be sued at least once. If the greedy malpractice attorneys didn't scour the hospitals like hawks looking for any potential negligence, we could practice in a way that would reduce costs.
I'm a doctor and I agree the current model doesn't work. Do you think us doctors like it? We hate it too. We want what is best for the patient and we spend nearly half our day wrestiing with insurance companies when that time could better be spend seeing patients. At the same time, we doctors also see the abuse on the other side. A lot of people cheap out and abuse the system by showing up to the ER for minor ailments rather than paying for health insurance. I can't tell you how many gangbangers show up to the ER yet drive a Cadillac Escalade with 22 rims that cost as much as his healthcare.
This is about personal responsibility too. My father made sure I had health insurance at all times because you never know what could happen. It was just a priority in our family. We didn't question it. If meant we didn't take a vacation, drove a less expensive car, lived in a smaller house, then so be it but we didn't go without health insurance. I see so many patients that are on Medicaid yet these families wear expensive jewelry, will drive up in nice cars etc. Health care is just not a priority for many Americans and then when they get ill they suddenly complain that it's so expensive
Az river fan. . . I have a bunch of close friends who are physicians, one who worked for a large medical insurance co. for 20 + year,until he could no longer deny the fact that that organization was doing everything it possibly could do to prevent reasonable patient care, one who is a world renowned pathologist with Mayo Clinic and the worlds leading expert in small cell lung cancer, and one who has worked as an E.R. doc. for many many years. All three, and at least a couple of the Dr.s in my own family, agree that the only "fix" that will both provide adequate care for all and bring costs to a more reasonable level is a single payer insurance system. My understanding is that this is the predominant view amoung physicians. Do you disagree? I don't really understand the argument that "rationing" will happen. . . of course it will! It is happening now, and not to assure coverage for all, but to put millions into the pockets of Ins. Co. execs!
When did a patient's basic rights to receive and appropriate level of healthcare become solely based on money? When did all of the ethical and moral obligations, the whole Hippocratic Oath, become obsolete? When someone who has become, through no fault of their own, disabled and unable to work or care for themselves, why are they denied any compassion within the healthcare system?
Ever since doctors wanted to be paid for their services--and not in chickens or free haircuts.
The entire system need to be reformed from physician's education, insurance and pay scales. The same applies to private sector insurance. We do not need the luxury of paying executives huge salaries for running what amounts to a casino. Health care can be provided for all by eliminating the unnecessary overhead of corporate profit, huge liability insurance (again) and executive salaries. We can provide future doctors with a free education by writing down the practitioners cost if they remain in medicine.
If a procedure goes wrong the patient will still be cared for under a UHC system and welfare can take care of the living expenses. That cost the society a lot less than multimillionaire lawyers with their expensive ambulance chasing TV adds.
Market based capitalist system is inappropriate way to provide health care because the basis of capitalism is return on investment and cares nothing about providing life saving services for anyone unable to pay for the help.
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