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Old 01-09-2010, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,968,967 times
Reputation: 2830

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It should go without saying really. Think about it; if someone from a "group" you belonged to, directly or indirectly performed some acts that would cause the general public to view you with suspicion, anger and worse, would you condone the behavior of these other people, or condemn it, to mark the difference between you and "them"?

I'm not sure why that concept is so hard to grasp.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:37 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
8,481 posts, read 6,102,605 times
Reputation: 8364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
A wise decision on your part, since getting beat up by a person with both hands tied behind their back would tend make anyone resort to TOA violating alternatives.
What I can't figure about you is why you allowed your almost perfect record of disruption and antagonism for its own sake to be blemished by a flash of sensible commentary about corporations and patriotism. Perhaps you shared your password with a dorm-mate.

Thanks for the reminder to put you on ignore.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:50 AM
 
1,317 posts, read 1,220,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Finally the Non-Muslims realize that Muslims have been protesting terrorism for quite some time!

IslamiCity.com - Muslim Americans Condemn Attack

Muslims march to protest terrorism - Aftenposten - News in English - Aftenposten.no (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article924678.ece - broken link)

Informed Comment: 6000 Muslim Clerics Endorse Fatwa against terrorism

American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism - American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism - Beliefnet.com
When there's thousands in the streets waving banners and placards it might mean something to somebody. 150 out of "10 million" is less than a drop in the bucket.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:05 AM
 
1,317 posts, read 1,220,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Judaism is peace loving and tolerant? That's a new one...



To an extent, yes, however the abortion clinic attacks I quoted, not to mention attacks on gays etc done by fundamental Christians in the US, and around the world even today, does indicate that they haven't crossed the finish line yet.

As far as Islam needing to evolve, I think it's more crucial that predominantly Muslim country's culture evolve, if you read the Koran, it's no more violent nor peace loving than the Bible.

The idea that Muslims by nature or religious indoctrination are more violent than others is wrong and most likely based on the ongoing media hysteria considering few had any real concern about them before it started.

The culture in many predominantly Muslim countries however, leaves something to be desired.
Sir your facts and ideas are sound. What you are failing to notice is the worldwide violence and intolerance of Muslims. That is Muslims against Muslims, Muslims against infidels and ALL in the name of God. This is rather unique, don't you think?
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: stairway to heaven
1,136 posts, read 582,699 times
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I have been trying to post this as the primary reason why Muslims are getting a bad and deserved rap and is also the solution to the problem. The silence has been deafening regards Muslims as a group standing up and saying these fool barbarians do not represent us.

It is also the answer to stopping the terrorism. If it is to be stopped it will have to be done by the societies in which it exists. They must police their own problem. If we police it alone no matter how many we kill new ones will rise up. If they police it, not only do they know where it is coming from but they have the power to sanction or kill it out of existence.

They are also doing nothing to address the underlying problem. Poverty and joblessness is the underlying problem. They are merely using religion as a banner to attract followers. Truly much of it is fanaticism and bloodlust. However, if you could somehow hand each man a job and say go support your family it would go away.
The Muslim community particularly the arabs have blead the western world of its resources, the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind and not as a result of war but as a result of commerce.
The question of our day is not what is America, the west, the free world, doing to help the muslims work, feed their families, live a life of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The question is rather, what are the Muslim communities doing with their vast resources, that they have extracted through commerce, from the west,- to help their own people?

They are hoarding that wealth and hoarding it in international investments instead of spreading that wealth in investments to help out their own kind. Although I believe our wars against them have been just and with merit I will admit to one ideological concept. If we took all the money that has been spent on the war by both sides and all countries and put those resources into Palestine, Israel and general Muslim job creation, we could build a shining city in Palestine, like they have built in Dubai, and the problem would be solved.
How do we get meglamaniacal leaders of the world and and fifth century barbarians to come to grips with tha? Short answer is we can't and we won't. Only bombs ans death will solve the problem and one never knows when it will be your turn to die.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:22 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,268,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Don't forget about the "Christian" KKK
Foxnews silence about them is deafening
As is the silence from CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and NBC......and that would be because the KKK is obsolete and hasn't been doing much of anything for decades.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:28 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,268,950 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Judaism is peace loving and tolerant? That's a new one...



To an extent, yes, however the abortion clinic attacks I quoted, not to mention attacks on gays etc done by fundamental Christians in the US, and around the world even today, does indicate that they haven't crossed the finish line yet.

As far as Islam needing to evolve, I think it's more crucial that predominantly Muslim country's culture evolve, if you read the Koran, it's no more violent nor peace loving than the Bible.

The idea that Muslims by nature or religious indoctrination are more violent than others is wrong and most likely based on the ongoing media hysteria considering few had any real concern about them before it started.

The culture in many predominantly Muslim countries however, leaves something to be desired.

Please show me just what gay attacks the fundementalists in this country have done on gays.....do you mean like being strong up on street corners as they do in Iran? No? Well, then what exactly? If you mean the fred phelps crew then the next time they show up in your town pay attention to what happens to them -- they are booed, honked at and usually counter protestors show up to shut them up. And no, not everyone honking and protesting are gay either.

One thing to consider though about muslims and violence is this; yes, the Koran in and of itself is for the most part progressive and peaceful. However, Imams and clerics and ayatollahs have been known to twist passages to suit thier political and social ideologies of hate and abuse. For every stoning of a rape victim you will have the local imam condoning it as being the will of allah. The same holds true for every gay being hung, and every suicide bomber. That is why violence and religion are so linked - they made it so.

As to the abortion bombers and dr killings -- which church condones this? Which priest/reverend/pastor preach this from the pulpit as the duty of every able bodied man? As the only way to get to heaven? That would be none. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: stairway to heaven
1,136 posts, read 582,699 times
Reputation: 242
KKK, what is that a cereal?
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,968,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theolsarge View Post
Sir your facts and ideas are sound. What you are failing to notice is the worldwide violence and intolerance of Muslims. That is Muslims against Muslims, Muslims against infidels and ALL in the name of God. This is rather unique, don't you think?
As for your question, no, historically speaking I don't.

I am, however, well aware of the violence and intolerance displayed by some Muslims in certain Muslim cultures.

The importance here though, I think, is to be aware of the difference between religious act and cultural or political acts carried out under a "veil" of religion.

Islam itself is no more violent than, say, Christianity. The problem at hand is underdeveloped cultures. Part of the world sped ahead and part were left behind. What we see, when it comes to violence and intolerance in predominantly Muslim countries, is cultures who's yet to evolve to the level of non violence and acceptance we claim in the west.

Historically speaking, we weren't much better off 200 years ago, or even 100 years ago regarding some things.

We can say "catch up with the times" change your culture, but we can say the same to Christian religious radicals (I'm using the term radical somewhat loosely here) in our western world today, when protesting heavily against Same sex Adoption, Gay Marriage so on and so forth.
What we cannot do though, is force the evolution of culture, we can encourage it, we can demand it, but not force it, that has to happen within the culture itself, for there to be any lasting result.

My point is; The problem isn't Islam itself, nor the Muslims who follow the religion, and the greater majority that do, oppose oppression, it' also very important to remember that what might seem oppressive to you and me, is not always what it appears to be.

The problem is the cultures of some predominantly Muslim countries, the social inequalities between those and our culture (without getting into that too deeply) and the reminiscence of acts carried out by our predecessors, and acts carried out by us today.

By looking at this problem for what it is, a cultural socio-political issue, we open up a whole new world of possible solutions, while removing some of the stigma that helps feed the conflict.

Fact of the matter is that a large majority of the Muslim population, especially in our western culture, have spoken out against the terrorist attacks, taking place in the last decade. They speak out against it in their arenas, and using their spokespersons, such as The Muslim Council of Britain's Secretary General Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, in this press release, dated 12.28.09
Quote:
"...we should all be thankful that this did not result in another atrocity. We all have a collective duty to stand against those who wish to perpetrate terror against innocent civilians where-ever it may occur”
The MCB is the UK's largest Muslim umbrella body with around 500 affiliated national, regional and local organizations, mosques, charities and schools, and as such, they represent a very large group of Muslims when they stand up against terror being committed in the name of god.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,968,967 times
Reputation: 2830
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
As to the abortion bombers and dr killings -- which church condones this? Which priest/reverend/pastor preach this from the pulpit as the duty of every able bodied man? As the only way to get to heaven? That would be none. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
I urge you to read up on radical and extremist Christian beliefs, doctrines and churches, as for the rest of your post, I think I answered it in my post just above this one.
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