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Old 01-19-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,515,954 times
Reputation: 27565

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Personal Responsibility is now considered filling out that form for government assistance.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:35 AM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,844,830 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
There is a problem with "personal responsibility" and healthcare.

The problem is this, you may say "I don't want to pay for healthcare", which is fine by me. Then, when you get sick, you go to the emergency room, where they are bound by law to treat you, and you can't afford the bill. Sure, they send it to collections, and try and get their money back, but most people I know can't afford, and just won't pay a 200,000 dollar hospital bill, instead of their mortgage.

So, then the "bill" gets passed onto the rest of your fellow Americans. We have to pay higher taxes, because the hospital can write off your unpaid bill. Those of us with Insurance get extra, non needed tests ran on us, to recoup the rest of the money they lost, which makes our insruance rates go up, and a higher copay.

So we are already paying for the "I don't want to pay for health insruance" crowd.

I'm all for not having some kind of publicly funded healthcare, if hospitals are released from their liability to treat everyone who comes in.

If you don't want insruance, fine, but you sign away your right to healthcare, unless you can pay the money up front. There are lots of ways for you to do that. It would start a whole new banking loan department, for health reasons.

But thats not going to happen, because we have to be compassionate to those who are sick or hurt. So we need a publicly funded healthcare system, where everyone who isn't paying in, but uses the system, has to pay in.

If you have insurance, you are being lied to, if you believe you'll have to pay more. It'll mean you have to pay more in taxes, but less on your insurance rate that you already are.
Bravo! I'll add that if the #1 cause of bankruptcy for middle class is health care costs, reform is not optional.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:16 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,188 posts, read 40,994,056 times
Reputation: 29918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
I think the idea is that if people don't have insurance, they're more likely to have unpaid medical bills, which shifts the financial burden to those who do have insurance.

On average in the US an uninsured patient is billed 307% of what an insurance company is billed for the same hospital services. It won't solve the health care situation but being ill shouldn't be the cause for price gouging by the system.

Last edited by burdell; 01-20-2010 at 03:42 AM..
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:44 AM
 
Location: Maine
898 posts, read 1,226,928 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Is that why on average in the US an uninsured patient is billed 307% of what an insurance company is billed for the same hospital services?
You've got it wrong, they bill the insurance companies MORE than they bill cash customers.

I've been to the ER sans insurance. The bill wasn't in the hundreds of thousands, heck, it wasn't even in the thousands. It was just a couple hundred bucks. And the hospital gave a 3% discount to anyone who paid within 30 days.

This crisis is an invented one. One that never would have existed had insurance never come on the scene. When the majority of people don't have to spend their own money for something, that artificially drives up the cost. It's simple economics. Insurance as an industry is the biggest scam that has ever been perpetrated on the people. The minute the first insurance company opened its doors, the practice should have been outlawed and the owners given the same treatment as horse thieves.
If that had happened, if insurance had not become so ingrained in our lives, healthcare would cost nowhere near what it does now.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:01 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
3,391 posts, read 4,242,538 times
Reputation: 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
There is a problem with "personal responsibility" and healthcare.

The problem is this, you may say "I don't want to pay for healthcare", which is fine by me. Then, when you get sick, you go to the emergency room, where they are bound by law to treat you, and you can't afford the bill. Sure, they send it to collections, and try and get their money back, but most people I know can't afford, and just won't pay a 200,000 dollar hospital bill, instead of their mortgage.

So, then the "bill" gets passed onto the rest of your fellow Americans. We have to pay higher taxes, because the hospital can write off your unpaid bill. Those of us with Insurance get extra, non needed tests ran on us, to recoup the rest of the money they lost, which makes our insruance rates go up, and a higher copay.

So we are already paying for the "I don't want to pay for health insruance" crowd.

I'm all for not having some kind of publicly funded healthcare, if hospitals are released from their liability to treat everyone who comes in.

If you don't want insruance, fine, but you sign away your right to healthcare, unless you can pay the money up front. There are lots of ways for you to do that. It would start a whole new banking loan department, for health reasons.

But thats not going to happen, because we have to be compassionate to those who are sick or hurt. So we need a publicly funded healthcare system, where everyone who isn't paying in, but uses the system, has to pay in.

If you have insurance, you are being lied to, if you believe you'll have to pay more. It'll mean you have to pay more in taxes, but less on your insurance rate that you already are.
I'm against the UHC (as it stands) but that's probably the soundest argument that I've heard for it. One caveat; you most certainly don't have to pay, nor will the bill go to collections if you are here illegally, sadly.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:12 AM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,844,830 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by melinuxfool View Post
You've got it wrong, they bill the insurance companies MORE than they bill cash customers.

I've been to the ER sans insurance. The bill wasn't in the hundreds of thousands, heck, it wasn't even in the thousands. It was just a couple hundred bucks. And the hospital gave a 3% discount to anyone who paid within 30 days.

This crisis is an invented one. One that never would have existed had insurance never come on the scene. When the majority of people don't have to spend their own money for something, that artificially drives up the cost. It's simple economics. Insurance as an industry is the biggest scam that has ever been perpetrated on the people. The minute the first insurance company opened its doors, the practice should have been outlawed and the owners given the same treatment as horse thieves.
If that had happened, if insurance had not become so ingrained in our lives, healthcare would cost nowhere near what it does now.
Hot dayum we all better run to maine for health care, because what burdell said about uninsured is the case in billing for the rest of us. The insurance industry locked all these doctors and hospitals into higher prices and even if they wanted to couldn't charge a lower rate. That's the baseline billing. Then there's the cost shifting billing where 307% is charged to the people who can least afford it, to cover the people who could afford it even less by skipping out on the bill (or an insurer denying a claim, costing the hospital, which in turn drives up that 307% to an even higher rate until the state government bails them out). Bankruptcy discharges from medical bills... guess what? The hospital bills everyone even more. Vicious cycle.

I see quite clearly how abusive insurance companies have been. The medical industrial complex is egging itself on for infinite profits. That has to stop. Insurance... not unregulated insurance. It does work to mitigate extreme losses but erasing consequences for people I can agree with your sentiments on that point. Deregulated insurance and the predatory attitude towards medicare... that's got to stop.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:15 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,188 posts, read 40,994,056 times
Reputation: 29918
Quote:
Originally Posted by melinuxfool View Post
You've got it wrong, they bill the insurance companies MORE than they bill cash customers.

That's not what a Harvard study found. The US average was the uninsured being billed 307% of what insurance companies are billed. As it often does, NJ lead the cost parade at 456% of what insurers are billed.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Reading, PA
4,059 posts, read 3,890,141 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by melinuxfool View Post
You've got it wrong, they bill the insurance companies MORE than they bill cash customers.
It doesn't matter how much the insurance companies are billed, what matters is how much the insurance company has contracted to pay the provider for the particular service. Bills to insurance companies are always for more than the insurance company has said they would pay.

Cash customers who get discounts are probably paying what the biggest insurance company is paying.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Reading, PA
4,059 posts, read 3,890,141 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzpost View Post
I'm against the UHC (as it stands) but that's probably the soundest argument that I've heard for it. One caveat; you most certainly don't have to pay, nor will the bill go to collections if you are here illegally, sadly.
There is no UHC standing in this country. It's UMI -- universal mandatory insurance. It has nothing to do with health care.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,385,768 times
Reputation: 24613
We do need Universal Health Care with the costs distributed to the entire population through the government. We do NOT need a profit driven private insurance taking their third of the bill to cover their "expenses".
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