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Old 01-20-2010, 12:32 PM
 
72 posts, read 121,957 times
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I'm reading The Man Who Sold the World: Ronald Reagan and the Betrayal of Main Street America by William Kleinknecht in which he points out:

"(Reagan) enacted policies that helped wipe out the high-paying jobs for the working class that were the real backbone of the country. ... His legacy - mergers, deregulation, tax cuts for the wealthy, privatization, globalization - helped weaken the family and eradicate small-town life and sense of community."

and Kleinknecht also points out that Reagan policies brought about

"a reversal in the slow gains that the working class and the poor had made in the previous two decades."


That being the reality of the Reagan regime, it's pretty amazing that so many working class and middle class revere Reagan as some sort of working class hero when in fact he was the puppet spokesperson of the robber-baron mentality. The two Bushes were basically a continuation of Reagans' policies. So in effect, you have a large number of people in this country who vote against their own interests because .... well, that's the Big Question, why do people vote against their own interests?

Why?
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,457 posts, read 12,289,981 times
Reputation: 4757
Another great book that captures this phenomenon:

Amazon.com: What's the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America (9780805073393): Thomas Frank: Books

Quote:
The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Southeast
4,297 posts, read 6,088,678 times
Reputation: 1444
The late 1960s and the entirety of the 70s saw the largest outsourcing of jobs in US history. It started with Japan and gradually expanded to China and other Asian nations after the Chinese aligned with the US instead of the USSR. This wave of outsourcing was one of the leading causes of the staggering inflation (along with oil price spikes) and a stagnant economy in the 70s.

Enter Reagan. Starting in 1983 was the largest economic expansion the American history, which very well lasted up until the year 2001 aside from a mild recession in 1990. For the first time in modern history, high paying jobs were plentiful in a plethora of emerging high-technology industries. By the mid-80s the railroad, airline, shipping, and trucking industries - the life blood of the American economy - were brought back from their 70s brink. Because of Reagan's policies, much of the failing Northeastern railroad network (nationalized as Conrail) was turning a profit for the first time since the 50s.

Reagan brought about a much needed modernization of American industry, business, and transportation, putting us in a better place to survive the rapid globalization that would follow the collapse of the USSR.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 12,723,181 times
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I'd need to see who wrote the book before I believe it. What agenda do they have?

Kansas may be Republican but we gave you Sebelius---yuck, lol

IMO, Democrats talk about helping the little guy but their policies are disastrous for the little guy. Putting peole on welfare and keeping them there does not help them.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,091 posts, read 10,442,239 times
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People want to see their party as infallible, and when people screw up they don't change their minds they just blame some one else. Self delusion is one of the most powerful forces in the human mind. It has always been my opinion that ones blame for what they do rests with themselves, but that's an evil in politics. You can see people still cheer Reagan's glory for the working class long after this was well known. Even my older relatives still do and blame things that happened on his decisions on Carter, even for things done at the end of Reagan's presidency.

The problem is that conservative grass roots movements plead to the emotions, and not the logic of the matter. If people question them on the issues people scream they are unAmerican, they are against the working class, they are commies/socialists/fascists instead of addressing the question.

I think it's great actually, as you see people who actively vote against their own interests to help the wealthy (usually about 10%) Americans, and do it with an emotional zeal that is impressive. You see the Tea Party groups that take the money donated and hand over a vast majority to the backers, instead of helping the cause or for lobbying. You see Beck expounding to buy gold on his show, after buying a great quantity himself and selling after it increases. People still love both of them, and rabble for them, even after it's rooted out and aired to the light of day.

I don't care any more myself. Republican policies benefit me, and have for a good while, so if they get passed over objections I am still good. I also am misanthropic, so watching working class Americans buy into this crap over and over while impoverishing themselves defending their scammers is fun to witness. Who needs sitcoms when you can watch real people screw themselves with such enthusiasm.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:43 PM
 
72 posts, read 121,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
The late 1960s and the entirety of the 70s saw the largest outsourcing of jobs in US history. It started with Japan and gradually expanded to China and other Asian nations after the Chinese aligned with the US instead of the USSR. This wave of outsourcing was one of the leading causes of the staggering inflation (along with oil price spikes) and a stagnant economy in the 70s.

Enter Reagan. Starting in 1983 was the largest economic expansion the American history, which very well lasted up until the year 2001 aside from a mild recession in 1990. For the first time in modern history, high paying jobs were plentiful in a plethora of emerging high-technology industries. By the mid-80s the railroad, airline, shipping, and trucking industries - the life blood of the American economy - were brought back from their 70s brink. Because of Reagan's policies, much of the failing Northeastern railroad network (nationalized as Conrail) was turning a profit for the first time since the 50s.

Reagan brought about a much needed modernization of American industry, business, and transportation, putting us in a better place to survive the rapid globalization that would follow the collapse of the USSR.
I guess that's why we're in such a strong position today. And for the foreseeable future ....
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:46 PM
 
72 posts, read 121,957 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
People want to see their party as infallible, and when people screw up they don't change their minds they just blame some one else. Self delusion is one of the most powerful forces in the human mind. It has always been my opinion that ones blame for what they do rests with themselves, but that's an evil in politics. You can see people still cheer Reagan's glory for the working class long after this was well known. Even my older relatives still do and blame things that happened on his decisions on Carter, even for things done at the end of Reagan's presidency.

The problem is that conservative grass roots movements plead to the emotions, and not the logic of the matter. If people question them on the issues people scream they are unAmerican, they are against the working class, they are commies/socialists/fascists instead of addressing the question.

I think it's great actually, as you see people who actively vote against their own interests to help the wealthy (usually about 10%) Americans, and do it with an emotional zeal that is impressive. You see the Tea Party groups that take the money donated and hand over a vast majority to the backers, instead of helping the cause or for lobbying. You see Beck expounding to buy gold on his show, after buying a great quantity himself and selling after it increases. People still love both of them, and rabble for them, even after it's rooted out and aired to the light of day.

I don't care any more myself. Republican policies benefit me, and have for a good while, so if they get passed over objections I am still good. I also am misanthropic, so watching working class Americans buy into this crap over and over while impoverishing themselves defending their scammers is fun to witness. Who needs sitcoms when you can watch real people screw themselves with such enthusiasm.
Well said.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,058 posts, read 29,570,383 times
Reputation: 10444
Quote:
Originally Posted by lymelyte View Post
.... well, that's the Big Question, why do people vote against their own interests?

Why?
Because the vast majority of people are uninformed. And they'd rather listen to a soothing voice and be entertained than face the realities of the world. So who better to vote in than an actual actor? And as proof of my theory, you'll note that Reagan was not only elected, but re-elected.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:54 PM
 
1,370 posts, read 1,924,081 times
Reputation: 1098
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
People want to see their party as infallible, and when people screw up they don't change their minds they just blame some one else. Self delusion is one of the most powerful forces in the human mind. It has always been my opinion that ones blame for what they do rests with themselves, but that's an evil in politics. You can see people still cheer Reagan's glory for the working class long after this was well known. Even my older relatives still do and blame things that happened on his decisions on Carter, even for things done at the end of Reagan's presidency.

The problem is that conservative grass roots movements plead to the emotions, and not the logic of the matter. If people question them on the issues people scream they are unAmerican, they are against the working class, they are commies/socialists/fascists instead of addressing the question.

I think it's great actually, as you see people who actively vote against their own interests to help the wealthy (usually about 10%) Americans, and do it with an emotional zeal that is impressive. You see the Tea Party groups that take the money donated and hand over a vast majority to the backers, instead of helping the cause or for lobbying. You see Beck expounding to buy gold on his show, after buying a great quantity himself and selling after it increases. People still love both of them, and rabble for them, even after it's rooted out and aired to the light of day.

I don't care any more myself. Republican policies benefit me, and have for a good while, so if they get passed over objections I am still good. I also am misanthropic, so watching working class Americans buy into this crap over and over while impoverishing themselves defending their scammers is fun to witness. Who needs sitcoms when you can watch real people screw themselves with such enthusiasm.
Agreed - well said.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,368,859 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
I'd need to see who wrote the book before I believe it. What agenda do they have?

Kansas may be Republican but we gave you Sebelius---yuck, lol

IMO, Democrats talk about helping the little guy but their policies are disastrous for the little guy. Putting peole on welfare and keeping them there does not help them.
Huh? It was Clinton who got so many OFF welfare! For the first time in my life I'm living off unemployment - and I blame the Republicans for that. Outsourcing, deregulation, off-shoring of jobs... all this has lead to 10% unemployment. The Dems had a hand in it too, but by far it's been Reps who've caused this mess.
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