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These folks are acting like the OP presented the quote as his own? What a crock. One need only look at the thread title for crying out loud.
I don't know why I waste time on here. I'm used to dealing at an elevated level of intellectual discourse with people who know how to present arguments (which I guess is what draws me here), but it's become evident that there simply is no hope of getting rational debate (which is very healthy) from many of the posters who are most convinced they are absolutely correct.
I don't know why I waste time on here. I'm used to dealing at an elevated level of intellectual discourse with people who know how to present arguments (which I guess is what draws me here), but it's become evident that there simply is no hope of getting rational debate (which is very healthy) from many of the posters who are most convinced they are absolutely correct.
This is what RW Radio is doing to America. Seriously. You can't cut through all the misinformation and seething hatred long enough to have a decent debate. The knuckle draggers swoop in and derail any efforts.
But it's not all that's needed. You and several other of your ideological kin who post here always enter threads, throw their one or two line angry opinion, and then walk away as if what you believe is simply a cemented fact that merely need be stated.
It's not. I agree with the OP. Defend your position for once. Provide evidence for your claim in direct relation to the article without giving into radical tendencies.
One cannot deny that Reagan and Thatcher, both enduring tough economies, fought through the same negatives Obama faces today.
I also agree with the author of the opinion piece that this is a moment of truth for Obama. He has been extremely flexible on the health care plan, to the point that to even utter the phrase "government run" or "socialist medicine" was a flat out lie with a filibuster-proof majority and will be even more so going forward.
But, as Jon Stewart pointed out, Bush pushed through whatever disasters he wanted with far less majority than Obama has now. There are still 18 more Dems than Reps in the Senate, and that is a HUGE majority for a divided nation. No doubt it will balance, as it always does after 2 referendum elections, but until November he has this majority and needs to use it wisely.
This is perhaps the biggest test of his leadership yet.
You stepped right in it and never noticed. Thatcher and Reagan were something that Obama will never be, and that is a leader. He can never pass a "test of his leadership" because he is a dyed in the wool follower. People will follow a Reagan, Thatcher, or even a Dubya because they are leaders and were placed in those leadership positions by those who expect them to lead. Blaming the previous office holder for his own personal failures reveals that he is an empty suit.
Following the 1994 Republican Revolution, Clinton, in his first address to the nation following the election, said "I have heard you". This statement likely saved his political career, but compare it to BO's recent statement to George Stephonpolis.
“Here’s my assessment of not just the vote in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country: The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office. People are angry, and they’re frustrated. Not just because of what’s happened in the last year or two years, but what’s happened over the last eight years.”
A leader would have noticed that we are not following and changed course.
You stepped right in it and never noticed. Thatcher and Reagan were something that Obama will never be, and that is a leader. He can never pass a "test of his leadership" because he is a dyed in the wool follower. People will follow a Reagan, Thatcher, or even a Dubya because they are leaders and were placed in those leadership positions by those who expect them to lead. Blaming the previous office holder for his own personal failures reveals that he is an empty suit.
Following the 1994 Republican Revolution, Clinton, in his first address to the nation following the election, said "I have heard you". This statement likely saved his political career, but compare it to BO's recent statement to George Stephonpolis.
“Here’s my assessment of not just the vote in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country: The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office. People are angry, and they’re frustrated. Not just because of what’s happened in the last year or two years, but what’s happened over the last eight years.”
A leader would have noticed that we are not following and changed course.
But to these Libs.......anything presented to them is discredited as nothing.
Nothing of substance for a "healthy debate" and it's far past obvious.....that they will only believe its a healthy debate if you can just agree with them on something!
If you choose to stop making them for a few minutes ...well, ok....and act like you agree with them.....then they'll have their "healthy debate" and hopefully, walk away soon, with a wittle smile and a wittle hope on their wittle facees.
Disagree with them no matter what........and well, you know. some Lib. gets weally maaaad and has a hissy.....
things get broken and Thanksgiving dinners are never the same. Friendships disintegrate and everyone's in a sour mood all around.
More often than not..........it's the result of their desire for your participation IN.......a HEALTHY debate.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,758,986 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkin about it
"The one thing the Cheneyites and Rovians have is nerve. They assert everything with utter certainty and confidence even though their record is appalling. Conservatives and liberals of doubt don't think or act that way. We are aware that we can be wrong; we try and analyze our own mistakes; we try to give a fair hearing to the other side. This can lead to an assumption that we are wusses. Or weak. But of course the opposite is true. It is the strong who can entertain doubt and the weak who cannot. Cheney is not a strong man; he is a bully hiding his own rank moral and political and national security failure. The whole point of the Obama candidacy - why he matters - is that he is a liberal of doubt. But he also showed in the campaign that this was a strength. And when he needed to, he revealed a ruthlessness and radicalism and won.
And that is why this moment is so vital.
He must not just rally the House Dems, he must rally the country. He must bring us back in. And we must back him up. This is not just about a centrist comprehensive health reform bill. It is about defeating an entire brand of cowardly, cynical, spin cycle bull**** that has brought this country down and promoting an adult and reasonable discourse that grapples with our problems.
That's what we elected him for. If he caves now, if he does not mount a huge effort to retain this bill, he will have surrendered on that critical ground. He will have lost his nerve. And if we cave now, all that work we did, all that energy, all that hope, will be squandered as the old politics gets its hands on our collective throats again.
I refuse to believe he has given up; and I refuse to believe we will. This moment is too important as a fulcrum on which this country's future hangs for him or us to give up now. The polls show a divided country. At this point in the adminstrations of my idols, Reagan and Thatcher, the polls were overwhelmingly against them. They faced them down and won.
Mr President, fight. Show you're a fighter. And start to enjoy it."
Excellent article and spot on the money! Obama's biggest problem is that he has not fought for anything. He refused to even get involved with the health care bill- instead letting Congress write the thing which is why it has turned into a horrible bill that everybody hates and they have wasted a year of time on. He has not been a leader or stood up. His enemies have owned the day and now nobody fears him. The American people like a strong leader. Even if they do not agree with a strong leader, they will support him over a weak leader they do agree with. That is why I voted for Reagan when he ran for his 2nd term (as did 49 of 50 states). I did not agree with much of anything Reagan did but he was strong. He stood his ground and told his critics to go to hell. He had his way with the Democrats in Congress because he let them know who the boss was and that there would be a price to pay if they tried to obstruct him. He did not tow poll numbers and stuck to his guns. I admired that in Reagan. Obama could be the same if he got some backbone. He has the same oratory skills Reagan had. He just does not have the spine Reagan had. He cannot even stand up to members of his own party, his own generals or the Republicans. Maybe things will change but for now he looks like Jimmy Carter II.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,758,986 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
You stepped right in it and never noticed. Thatcher and Reagan were something that Obama will never be, and that is a leader. He can never pass a "test of his leadership" because he is a dyed in the wool follower. People will follow a Reagan, Thatcher, or even a Dubya because they are leaders and were placed in those leadership positions by those who expect them to lead. Blaming the previous office holder for his own personal failures reveals that he is an empty suit.
Following the 1994 Republican Revolution, Clinton, in his first address to the nation following the election, said "I have heard you". This statement likely saved his political career, but compare it to BO's recent statement to George Stephonpolis.
“Here’s my assessment of not just the vote in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country: The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office. People are angry, and they’re frustrated. Not just because of what’s happened in the last year or two years, but what’s happened over the last eight years.”
A leader would have noticed that we are not following and changed course.
Bull. That is the LAST thing he should do. Bill Clinton was saved by a good economy and a lousy candidate on the other side (Dole). Reagan was so far down in the polls at this point in his presidency that many people thought he would not even RUN for another term much less win one. He coined the phrase "Stay the Course" and he stood up for what he thought was right the polls be damned. He didn't change course because of polls. And he won 48 states a year and a half later.
This is what RW Radio is doing to America. Seriously. You can't cut through all the misinformation and seething hatred long enough to have a decent debate. The knuckle draggers swoop in and derail any efforts.
I don't recall either specific party being mentioned in the post you quoted, and then you turn around and engage in the same behavior you accuse the *other side* of.....
The article in the OP only serves to lengthen Obama's timeframe for what he promised to do from the start...."unite" "rally", etc....
If he hasn't done it by now, when?
I don't recall either specific party being mentioned in the post you quoted,
Try to keep up will you please? Go back through this thread. It's evident who is, and who is not interested in a debate. Their only apparent interest is to derail.
Try to keep up will you please? Go back through this thread. It's evident who is, and who is not interested in a debate. Their only apparent interest is to derail.
What some see as...derail, others see as.....why bother?
And it's not just a debate being sought.......but, a healthy debate.
What some see as...derail, others see as.....why bother?:
Let me see if I understand this? The OP posts comments and ask for a debate, and because a poster doesn't think the topic at hand is worth debating in his/her view, they feel compelled to post dismissing the thread as opposed to simply moving on to another thread.
And you don't see a problem with that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign
And it's not just a debate being sought.......but, a healthy debate.
That's all the OP was asking for...
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for a few minutes 
...well, ok....and act like you agree with them.....then they'll have their "healthy debate" and hopefully, walk away soon, with a wittle smile and a wittle hope on their wittle facees. 
some Lib. gets weally maaaad 
