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Old 01-29-2010, 10:22 PM
 
19,233 posts, read 12,250,410 times
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I have wondered what has been the cause of the rise of liberalism in the US, as its tenets appear to be self destructive and, in the natural order of things, would die out in a generation or two if left to its own accord. Consider-

1. Had our early settlers relied upon the generosity of others or the government to provide food and shelter, they would have starved.

2. Had thier been strong oppostion to capitalism, the American industrial revolution would have never occurred. What is an airplane and automobile anyway.

3. Had environmental activists held sway in the early US, no dams, logging, settling of the Great Plains, oil exploration, or mining would have occurred. We would be stuck on the east coast burning dung and twigs next to our mud huts for fear of hurting the environment.

4. Lack of support for the military would have resulted in the destruction of the republic in the war of 1812 and the Civil War. Had we survived, Hitler would have won WW2 due to the liberal lack of will to fight .

5. The teacher's union would have killed the development of real education in math and sciences, stifling our innovation, and focused instead on gay marriage.

6. Advancement of gay agendas would have stifled US population growth, leading us to have a population close to that of Albania today.


Given the growth of social programs and the fostering of non-productive individuals (more liberals), a large portion of the population who would have starved and died off in the past from thier own insane beliefs are alive today- reproducing and spreading more of thier liberal nonsense. Too bad we can't return to the old days of the republic, in which self destructive foolishness would have ultimately led to one's demise and elimination of the perpetuation of idiocy.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
26,529 posts, read 25,038,026 times
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Just laughable.

There is a range of beliefs that humans hold. Some people will always be considered more liberal, and some will always be considered more conservative. And most people will be average. That's just the way it is.

What - is it too frustrating to accept that not everyone sees the world in the same way?
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:35 PM
 
8,640 posts, read 7,982,781 times
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You can add to that society is certsinly regressing with liberalism becoming more crass, crude, vulgar and animalistic. Liberals believe in "me first, whatever feels good" and thinks not about the rest of society or what harm they may cause.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:32 PM
 
Location: San Josť, CA
3,269 posts, read 5,790,876 times
Reputation: 3207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
I have wondered what has been the cause of the rise of liberalism in the US, as its tenets appear to be self destructive and, in the natural order of things, would die out in a generation or two if left to its own accord. Consider-

1. Had our early settlers relied upon the generosity of others or the government to provide food and shelter, they would have starved.

2. Had thier been strong oppostion to capitalism, the American industrial revolution would have never occurred. What is an airplane and automobile anyway.

3. Had environmental activists held sway in the early US, no dams, logging, settling of the Great Plains, oil exploration, or mining would have occurred. We would be stuck on the east coast burning dung and twigs next to our mud huts for fear of hurting the environment.Smilies

4. Lack of support for the military would have resulted in the destruction of the republic in the war of 1812 and the Civil War. Had we survived, Hitler would have won WW2 due to the liberal lack of will to fight .

5. The teacher's union would have killed the development of real education in math and sciences, stifling our innovation, and focused instead on gay marriage.

6. Advancement of gay agendas would have stifled US population growth, leading us to have a population close to that of Albania today.
1. Early settlers relied on plenty of other early settlers for sustinence, INCLUDING the Virginia Company, et. al as well as King James I, King Charles I, AND Oliver Cromwell. (Did you even study early American history?) Forget the multitudes of support received from England (the settlers didn't do it by themselves), there was a work and a pecking order. You need to open your mind, just a bit. "Government," in your example, could even be a euphemism in Colonial Virginia for anyone in higher positions. A colony needs a leader and leaders at times provide, at the very least - direction. (That's beside the fact that a government delivered to us everything we actually needed.)

2. Capitalism without regulation destroyed itself, friend. Capitalism and socialism need to go hand-in-hand because on their own, they lack many things, but together, great things can be accomplished. Want to know what the world was like when Capitalism ran freely? Read Upton Sinclaire's The Jungle.

4. One of the greatest liberals of all was in office when Hitler declared war on the U.S. - how'd that work out for Germany? Oh, and the extremist, far-left Russians defeated 2/3rds of the German army. Hmph. I don't know if I could think up two more extreme examples to defeat your claim here.

5. Doesn't this seem more of a trait of Christian Conservativism? Add the insistence on hokey-pokey religion in our schools, taking the place of real science.

6. Wow, really?

Back to the drawing board... and I voted for a Republican, but you're a real piece of work without any real historical knowledge simply being a sheep of talking heads like Beck. Think for yourself, brother.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
26,529 posts, read 25,038,026 times
Reputation: 7739
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
6. Advancement of gay agendas would have stifled US population growth, leading us to have a population close to that of Albania today.
So people can be talked into becoming homosexual? You don't believe that most people are hard-wired to be heterosexual and that it is unchangeable?
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:46 AM
 
19,233 posts, read 12,250,410 times
Reputation: 10554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF View Post
1. Early settlers relied on plenty of other early settlers for sustinence, INCLUDING the Virginia Company, et. al as well as King James I, King Charles I, AND Oliver Cromwell. (Did you even study early American history?) Forget the multitudes of support received from England (the settlers didn't do it by themselves), there was a work and a pecking order. You need to open your mind, just a bit. "Government," in your example, could even be a euphemism in Colonial Virginia for anyone in higher positions. A colony needs a leader and leaders at times provide, at the very least - direction. (That's beside the fact that a government delivered to us everything we actually needed.)

2. Capitalism without regulation destroyed itself, friend. Capitalism and socialism need to go hand-in-hand because on their own, they lack many things, but together, great things can be accomplished. Want to know what the world was like when Capitalism ran freely? Read Upton Sinclaire's The Jungle.

4. One of the greatest liberals of all was in office when Hitler declared war on the U.S. - how'd that work out for Germany? Oh, and the extremist, far-left Russians defeated 2/3rds of the German army. Hmph. I don't know if I could think up two more extreme examples to defeat your claim here.

5. Doesn't this seem more of a trait of Christian Conservativism? Add the insistence on hokey-pokey religion in our schools, taking the place of real science.

6. Wow, really?

Back to the drawing board... and I voted for a Republican, but you're a real piece of work without any real historical knowledge simply being a sheep of talking heads like Beck. Think for yourself, brother.


1. Sure. On the prarie and in the west, the settlers really did not farm and support themselves. There were government chow wagons that came by three times a day to give them food, only after they had built thier housing. The feds sent social workers and relief workers out all the time to ensure that no one starved, whether they worked or not. Is this how marxists really view the settling of the west? The Virginia Company was a private enterprise that provided financial support. Are you suggesting that the early settlers did not have to rely upon their own hard work and merits to sustain themselves and that only external support was given? Why did over half the colonists starve at Jamestown? What happened at Roanoke?

2. Capitalism destroyed itself? Since when? Are we now living in a marxist system and someone failed to inform the public? The US has ALWAYS been a nation that relied upon capitalism for innovation and development. Witness the development of nearly all the modern inventions that we have today in capitalistic nations. If communism/socialism was the main generator of innovation, all scientific and technical developments in the last century would not have come from the US, but would have arisen from the USSR and Communist China. Wake up.

3. So what you are saying is that the modern liberal is actually very pro-miltary and supports strong national defense? I am glad that they have changed thier position. Did this happen yesterday? FDR and Stalin did NOTHING to stop Hitler and the axis powers until they appeared on their doorsteps and were attacked. While the first blows from the Wehrmacht were raining down on the USSR, supply trains of oil and metals were rolling into Germany from the USSR. Stalin was caught flat footed, despite intelligence showing an impending invasion. But was Stalin a liberal fool? No- he was an authoritarian. Likewise, FDR allowed the US military to shrink to the 23rd largest standing army in the world under his watch. He decimated the US Navy and left the nation vunerable to attack, which emboldened the Japanese to take a chance at Pearl Harbor. Had FDR and Stalin been for a strong defense and better prepared, WW2 could have probably been prevented. Read some WW2 history.

5. Trait of Christian conservatism? No. Witness that homeschooled children and those in parochial schools score much higher on ACT and SAT as well as basic skills testing compared to children in public schools. Why? Because they are actually taught math, science, and english composition IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. The public school system has been destroyed by liberals and produces an inferior product at twice the price of the parochial school system.

6. Wow really? Yes, really. The liberals have eroded traditional values and the two parent family, destablizing the environment in which children can grow and learn without conflict. One of the main targets identified by the Frankfurt Group to undermine the US was the family unit. By promoting divorce, recreational drugs, unstable "alternative" families, and "free love", the traditional two parent family changed from the norm to the exception. A child cannot develop and prosper in an unstable environment, thus the decline of morality and social boundries is perpetuated from one generation to the next. Why destroy the family? One is forced to submit to greater reliance upon the state when the family unit is destroyed. Who said, ".....it takes a village"? I say to hell with the village- it takes two committed parents.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:54 AM
 
34,990 posts, read 34,764,818 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
I have wondered what has been the cause of the rise of liberalism in the US, as its tenets appear to be self destructive and, in the natural order of things, would die out in a generation or two if left to its own accord. Consider-

1. Had our early settlers relied upon the generosity of others or the government to provide food and shelter, they would have starved.

2. Had thier been strong oppostion to capitalism, the American industrial revolution would have never occurred. What is an airplane and automobile anyway.

3. Had environmental activists held sway in the early US, no dams, logging, settling of the Great Plains, oil exploration, or mining would have occurred. We would be stuck on the east coast burning dung and twigs next to our mud huts for fear of hurting the environment.

4. Lack of support for the military would have resulted in the destruction of the republic in the war of 1812 and the Civil War. Had we survived, Hitler would have won WW2 due to the liberal lack of will to fight .

5. The teacher's union would have killed the development of real education in math and sciences, stifling our innovation, and focused instead on gay marriage.

6. Advancement of gay agendas would have stifled US population growth, leading us to have a population close to that of Albania today.


Given the growth of social programs and the fostering of non-productive individuals (more liberals), a large portion of the population who would have starved and died off in the past from thier own insane beliefs are alive today- reproducing and spreading more of thier liberal nonsense. Too bad we can't return to the old days of the republic, in which self destructive foolishness would have ultimately led to one's demise and elimination of the perpetuation of idiocy.
You need to define your presumption of what a liberal is, please, so others can follow along.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:04 AM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,419,147 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
6. Wow really? Yes, really. The liberals have eroded traditional values and the two parent family, destablizing the environment in which children can grow and learn without conflict. One of the main targets identified by the Frankfurt Group to undermine the US was the family unit. By promoting divorce, recreational drugs, unstable "alternative" families, and "free love", the traditional two parent family changed from the norm to the exception. A child cannot develop and prosper in an unstable environment, thus the decline of morality and social boundries is perpetuated from one generation to the next. Why destroy the family? One is forced to submit to greater reliance upon the state when the family unit is destroyed. Who said, ".....it takes a village"? I say to hell with the village- it takes two committed parents.

too bad your opinion is not actually supported by any research. Your idea that kids need a good mom and good dad to function is false. They need stability and safety but that can be provided in many ways. Including by gay and single parents. You should really do some reading before spouting off opinion as fact.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:27 AM
 
3,703 posts, read 4,275,260 times
Reputation: 2234
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
I have wondered what has been the cause of the rise of liberalism in the US, as its tenets appear to be self destructive and, in the natural order of things, would die out in a generation or two if left to its own accord. Consider-

1. Had our early settlers relied upon the generosity of others or the government to provide food and shelter, they would have starved.

The early settlers were probably more reliant on each other than any time since in American history. They frequently shared resources and pitched in to help each other out and early colonial governments supported it as well.

2. Had thier been strong oppostion to capitalism, the American industrial revolution would have never occurred. What is an airplane and automobile anyway.

Agreed.

3. Had environmental activists held sway in the early US, no dams, logging, settling of the Great Plains, oil exploration, or mining would have occurred. We would be stuck on the east coast burning dung and twigs next to our mud huts for fear of hurting the environment.

Agreed.

4. Lack of support for the military would have resulted in the destruction of the republic in the war of 1812 and the Civil War. Had we survived, Hitler would have won WW2 due to the liberal lack of will to fight .

Probably.

5. The teacher's union would have killed the development of real education in math and sciences, stifling our innovation, and focused instead on gay marriage.

The problem with teachers' unions is not gay marriage (Where the f--k did you get that from?), but rather they make it nearly impossible for many school districts to fire or censure incompetent teachers and affect meaningful reforms in the classroom.

6. Advancement of gay agendas would have stifled US population growth, leading us to have a population close to that of Albania today.

The US is one of the few Western nations that is gaining people without the need for immigration. And how is the "gay agenda" reducing birth rates? Last time I checked, no more than 5% of the population is gay. It is not like gay rights organizations are running ads and even if they were I doubt most straights would switch teams over the commercials featuring women who look like Drew Carey and men in cut off wife beaters.


Given the growth of social programs and the fostering of non-productive individuals (more liberals), a large portion of the population who would have starved and died off in the past from thier own insane beliefs are alive today- reproducing and spreading more of thier liberal nonsense. Too bad we can't return to the old days of the republic, in which self destructive foolishness would have ultimately led to one's demise and elimination of the perpetuation of idiocy.

I sorta agree with you here. While I generally agree with liberals on a wide variety of social issues. My disagreement is on economic issues and issues like the use of military force.
My text is in bold.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:44 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 13,189,449 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
1. Sure. On the prarie and in the west, the settlers really did not farm and support themselves. There were government chow wagons that came by three times a day to give them food, only after they had built thier housing. The feds sent social workers and relief workers out all the time to ensure that no one starved, whether they worked or not. Is this how marxists really view the settling of the west? The Virginia Company was a private enterprise that provided financial support. Are you suggesting that the early settlers did not have to rely upon their own hard work and merits to sustain themselves and that only external support was given? Why did over half the colonists starve at Jamestown? What happened at Roanoke?

2. Capitalism destroyed itself? Since when? Are we now living in a marxist system and someone failed to inform the public? The US has ALWAYS been a nation that relied upon capitalism for innovation and development. Witness the development of nearly all the modern inventions that we have today in capitalistic nations. If communism/socialism was the main generator of innovation, all scientific and technical developments in the last century would not have come from the US, but would have arisen from the USSR and Communist China. Wake up.

3. So what you are saying is that the modern liberal is actually very pro-miltary and supports strong national defense? I am glad that they have changed thier position. Did this happen yesterday? FDR and Stalin did NOTHING to stop Hitler and the axis powers until they appeared on their doorsteps and were attacked. While the first blows from the Wehrmacht were raining down on the USSR, supply trains of oil and metals were rolling into Germany from the USSR. Stalin was caught flat footed, despite intelligence showing an impending invasion. But was Stalin a liberal fool? No- he was an authoritarian. Likewise, FDR allowed the US military to shrink to the 23rd largest standing army in the world under his watch. He decimated the US Navy and left the nation vunerable to attack, which emboldened the Japanese to take a chance at Pearl Harbor. Had FDR and Stalin been for a strong defense and better prepared, WW2 could have probably been prevented. Read some WW2 history.

5. Trait of Christian conservatism? No. Witness that homeschooled children and those in parochial schools score much higher on ACT and SAT as well as basic skills testing compared to children in public schools. Why? Because they are actually taught math, science, and english composition IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. The public school system has been destroyed by liberals and produces an inferior product at twice the price of the parochial school system.

6. Wow really? Yes, really. The liberals have eroded traditional values and the two parent family, destablizing the environment in which children can grow and learn without conflict. One of the main targets identified by the Frankfurt Group to undermine the US was the family unit. By promoting divorce, recreational drugs, unstable "alternative" families, and "free love", the traditional two parent family changed from the norm to the exception. A child cannot develop and prosper in an unstable environment, thus the decline of morality and social boundries is perpetuated from one generation to the next. Why destroy the family? One is forced to submit to greater reliance upon the state when the family unit is destroyed. Who said, ".....it takes a village"? I say to hell with the village- it takes two committed parents.

Excellent points all. With a hefty chunk of the present population in the socialist state of mind, the country can no longer coddle and support their exotic agendas without going down the tubes. The marxist education system over the years, and especially now with BoBo's pedophile loving czar in place, will be ramping up the indoctrination of young susceptible minds. Great civilizations such as Rome were not destroyed in a day, but seems that "day" is shortly upon us.
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